Controling people and gaining a tactical advantage

[Jack]

This topic could be posted under the thread I started on voice commands, but it has such a direct relation to hand to hand combat that I thought I would post it here.

If you find yourself outnumbered, or in any situation where you can't take physical control of a subject(s), the next best thing is to give them voice commands that (if they comply) will put them at an extreme tactical disadvantage.

The objective here is to put them in a position where they have to make several overt steps to go into fight or flight. For instance, order them to lie prone, looking away from you, cross their ankles and bring them up to their backside, plus put their hands are behind their back.

Now in order for them to attack you, they have to uncross their ankles, put their feet on the deck, put their hands on the deck, get up to their knees, put a foot on the ground and then raise up. Due to the fact that they have to complete all of these steps, you have a lot of warning that they are not complying and are attempting either fight or flight.

Not only dose this put you at an extreme physical advantage, it also puts them at an extreme phycological disadvantage. It is pretty difficult to think aggressively when you are in this position.

Another thing that can be done to keep them from thinking aggressively is to keep them engaged in conversation. This keeps the mind busy so that it can not formulate a plan of attack. It is important to control the conversation and possibly ask recon type questions, such as, "Where are your buddies at? How many more of you are their?" If they will not answer these types of questions, SOMETIMES it might be appropriate to make small talk, but GENERALLY you will not want to do this.

Another thing that can be done, ONCE THEY ARE IN AN EXTREME POSITION OF DISADVANTAGE, is to place the ball of your foot on their calf, or to have them place their hands in front of them like they are diving and then step on the hands. This techniques is appropriate if you have to watch them, but also have to keep an eye on additional threats, like unsecured doorways.

As long as the principle is in place you can do any number of things to keep them controlled with varying degrees of control. For instance, you might just have them sit down with their legs strait, ankles crossed and their hands in their laps. It all depends on their number's vs yours, their avenues of escape and ability/will to resist.

Use your imagination and have fun training. Just remember that you must remain in control.

[Jack]

Also even if the person dose not comply with my commands, there is also a great advantage to giving the commands. If they do not comply, then I find out early in my contact with them that they are a potential problem and a greater threat to me.

I would rather find this out right away, as apposed to let them stand around, trusting and/or wandering if they are going to resist. Assuming that I have the right to give the commands, for instance if they are in my house, and they don't comply, then they are already resisting.

Remember that the commands can be as simple as, "Put your hands on the table and stay seated." But the point is once they comply, you have established a pecking order(because they complied) and once they take their hands off the table and try to stand up, you have resistance.

[Ryan]

Bad Example, what not to do:

[badger]

very bad.

[Dramatikk]

What was so terrible about this standing arrest?

Kind regards, Dramatikk.

[Ryan]

Didn't clear the corners, didn't even acknowledge them?

Didn't cover his buddy while doing the arrest and his buddy got in the way?

Didn't cuff or secure the suspect properly? He had a holster, had a pistol - would of cuffed and maybe blindfolded that guy, took away the pistol or took the holster off with pistol inside.

I didn't like the way they didn't acknowledge with eachother when they were going in the room, seemed like the second guy was trying to keep up with the first more than anything, but he did good not to muzzle sweep the vital areas of his mate and at the start the weapon so close to his ear - ouch if that went off.

And the suspect should always be in view of the guy covering his buddy - when they took him out the room this wasn't the case and there was a few seconds gap between being able to cover him again.

[Dramatikk]

I understood that the room clearing and the buddy cover was bad, but the cuffing of the suspect seemed to be OK.
On the other hand, it is easy for the suspect to get in to a fighting position when standing up, and this way clinch the operator cuffing him. Am I right?

Anyway, thnx for the answer Ryan.

Kind regards, Dramatikk.

[Ryan]

I understood that the room clearing and the buddy cover was bad, but the cuffing of the suspect seemed to be OK.
On the other hand, it is easy for the suspect to get in to a fighting position when standing up, and this way clinch the operator cuffing him. Am I right?

Anyway, thnx for the answer Ryan.

Kind regards, Dramatikk.

Point!

[Admin]

If you are serius, always get the threat down on the floor get in controle before cuffing.

[tacticalguy]

I have to admit I was appalled at the number of mistakes that were illustrated in the video. Ryan did such a good job of pointing them out so, I won't bother reiterating them. I will say that my favorite way of restraining someone is either the LAPD "felony stop" or give verbal commands to the subject, from 12-15ft behind. Have the subject interlace fingers at the back of the head and drop to their knees. Have subject cross their ankles. Approach from rear and to the left as your partner moves up from right rear so as to negate any crossfire/friendly fire issues. Grasp interlaced fingers firmly with one hand as you wedge one ankle in between his crossed ankles, this prevents him from being able to uncross his ankles and rise unless you step away and allow it. Pull back on the interlaced fingers (which act like a Chinese finger puzzle if your hands are big and strong enough) as you push your knee from the same leg into the middle of his back. At that point, the subject should be bowed back against your kneecap with nowhere to go. If he struggles, you push forward with your weight and he is going face-first (into the ground/pavement, etc) as you land with all of your weight on top of him. At this point, you can do a brief patdown or begin the cuffing process. I suggest cuffing first. This method has never failed me.

PS: For those with smaller hands I recommend the same technique but, have the subject put their hands together as if they're praying before placing them behind the head. When you place your ankle as your first block, grasp the thumbs which are close together and yank down hard to pull them back off balance against your knee. Several female LEOs and security officers that I've trained have had great success with that modification.

[Ryan]

Excellent technique!

Delta Force with a captured Taliban fighter, below:


Then again on the opposite spectrum, the enemy will try uphold and inhibit you, block you and what not. That's why they are tied and controlled. Some chose to tie the legs and carry them if they're that annoying.

In WW2 they used EPOW's and caught prisoners to carry friendlies wounded. Even using them as bait. Some were even shot with their hands tied behind their backs as they couldn't load all the prisoners into vehicles to escape.

I suppose tactical questioning and interrogation may come into this also -- as it can be done on the fly for relative information to a battle such as where the immediate threats are, if reinforcements are coming or anyone else is alerted or has been contacted.