Low Light tactics

Forum to discuss CQB entry tactics / room clearing, with other registered users.

Moderators: jimothy_183, Admin

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Low Light tactics

Post by Jack » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:39 am

I thought we could throw out a cool low light tactic or idea one at a time, so that the POST lasts a long time and remains interesting, instead of one or two of us writing extensively on one or two posts. I'll start.

Situation, you are operating in a CQB low light environment, you have a hand held light(without a lanyard) and a pistol, shotgun, subgun or whatever. The situation arises where you need to, reload, fix a malfunction, or get something out of your gear bag. What do you do with the flashlight? The easiest and the most practical method I have seen is simply placing your right knee on the ground and quickly place the flash light under the toe of the left shoe. This motion is quick, gives you a free hand to change mags or whatever, and keeps the flash light where you can instantly find it in the dark. It also lowers your profile and makes you a small target. This technique would also work to place other things under the shoe if say you where holding something and quickly had to abandon it to get both hands on a long gun.
Last edited by Jack on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:07 pm
Contact:

Post by Admin » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:45 pm

It sounds like a good idea.
First, I turn off the flashlight, then I take a few steps away from the place where it was lit. I go down to be a small target, and if can do the job with one hand, I keep the flashlight in my hand. Otherwise, I put it under the foot so I know where it is. If I expect that it takes longer, I will put it in my pocket.

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:59 am

Yea I didn't mention turning off the light, I thought that was obvious, but should have mentioned it anyway. Taking a few steps away after turning off the light would be appropriate in several situations. I like the way you think. However there are other situations that would require you to stay put. For instance you are already behind good cover.

I do a lot of things with the flashlight still in my hand, including opening doors, a hand snap down on suspects, and others. However I do use two hands for reloads and malfunctions. I only put the light under my shoe if I plan on retrieving a short time later, otherwise I would store it in a pouch. Good points.

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:53 am

A good example of an good time to use this technique is while clearing a major malfunction on a subgun in a day light or low light environment, when you only have one mag. Take a knee, take the mag off, place it under the toe, rack the slide three times and lock open the bolt, retrieve and insert mag, drop the bolt.

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:57 am

I keep saying the toe, but I guess I really put the items under the ball of my foot.

User avatar
Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 332
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:07 pm
Contact:

Post by Admin » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:13 am

I have used this "technique" many times when I have been on patrol. when I had to pee or something else.
I put my gun under my left foot so I could feel the weapon at all time.

jcheng14
Civilian
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:52 am
Contact:

Post by jcheng14 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:52 pm

i always put the light under my right armpit, that way if i had to move for whatever reason i could do so without leaving things behind.

realistically though, i'd probably just drop the light into another one of these pockets. god knows the tac vest i have has enough pockets.

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:12 am

I used to place the light into an armpit. This works OK but in my opinion has limited value. Putting it into the armpit worked very well when I did late night building searches as a road patrol officer and I was carrying a large mag light. I would only put it their long enough to open a door and then it would be back in the hand. However in a low light environment placing it their to conduct reloads or malfunction drills is more risky. These drills are done calmly at the range, but in a real situation you are going to be amped up big time. The chance of dropping the light and then having to abandon it, or search for it is too great for the arm pit hold. In my opinion.

birddog
Military
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 am
Location: Washington

Post by birddog » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:54 pm

I'd love to through in my imput, but we use IR and nightvision for 100% of our night /low level light ops. The only time we would use any type of "white light" is to give our possition away and since we dont want to do that.......we dont use it. If you look at my M4, it has mounted on it a STRYKER IR Lighting system that works with my NGV's.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:03 pm

Do you get to use your own weapons in the RSTA? Cos I thought most in units you have to use government issued equipment.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

jcheng14
Civilian
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:52 am
Contact:

Post by jcheng14 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:14 pm

i know of army / marines that buy their own scopes and mount them all the time.


for small lights like mini-mag lights, you can just hold on to them while you are reloading.


I dont really use free lights though, just lights that are attached to my weapon. pressure switches are awesome.

birddog
Military
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 am
Location: Washington

Post by birddog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:30 am

We get issued an M4, but the one that I posted on this site is my personal one that I used during my second tour......as long as it uses NATO 5.56 Ball, we can use our personal M4's. We still are responsible for the ones Uncle Sam loaned us !
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:58 pm

I know these videos are already on this sight somewhere, but this seems like a good time to post them. These are good videos and must of this stuff is still cutting edge.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl= ... itesearch=

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:15 am

OK. Nobody has really posted their tricks on this thread, so I guess I'll post another one.

You can use the light very effectively for recon work. Simply move up to the corner you wish to clear, stick the flashlight around the corner or into the doorway and start flashing it on and off.

If somebody is in the room waiting for a target to shoot at, whether it is real world or airsoft, they will most likely shoot at the light. This is great for situations where he has probably heard you coming and has set up in a defensive position.

Make sure you hold the light well away from your body in case they are shooting something that can go through walls.

Be ready to move if the gun fire starts. Also make sure you hold the light in there long enough for him to see it and respond to it. The lights in, he sees it, its out.

Remember when he sees the light, he is going to be sure that you are right behind the light, looking and sighting in on him. His only choice is to shoot or to move. Often if they move they will make enough noise that you will hear them. Now that you know they are in their you have a much better advantage.

arthur
Military
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:03 pm

Post by arthur » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:07 pm

Jake wrote:OK. Nobody has really posted their tricks on this thread, so I guess I'll post another one.

You can use the light very effectively for recon work. Simply move up to the corner you wish to clear, stick the flashlight around the corner or into the doorway and start flashing it on and off.

If somebody is in the room waiting for a target to shoot at, whether it is real world or airsoft, they will most likely shoot at the light. This is great for situations where he has probably heard you coming and has set up in a defensive position.

Make sure you hold the light well away from your body in case they are shooting something that can go through walls.

Be ready to move if the gun fire starts. Also make sure you hold the light in there long enough for him to see it and respond to it. The lights in, he sees it, its out.

Remember when he sees the light, he is going to be sure that you are right behind the light, looking and sighting in on him. His only choice is to shoot or to move. Often if they move they will make enough noise that you will hear them. Now that you know they are in their you have a much better advantage.


ill see if i can use that this week when i go to my unit mission readiness excersice thanks

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Use this technique only after you have done all you can to slice the pie outside of the room. It is a good tactic to START to clear those difficult corners, attics and crawl spaces.

Again, eventually you are going to have to look into the room.

When you stick the light in the room they might say something like, "I give up, don't shoot." At that point, get cover and then call them out.

Even if they don't say anything, you don't hear anything, or they don't shot, that doesn't mean it hasn't been valuable. Try calling them out anyway. They might be sure that you saw them so they don't see the need to be quit anymore. You might at least get a, "Screw you!" And then you know where they are and that somebody is their.

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:55 pm

Aurthur, did you get a chance to use this technique? If so, was it effective?

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:56 pm

Has anyone used it?

jcheng14
Civilian
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:52 am
Contact:

Post by jcheng14 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:54 am

Lights definitely do draw fire when stuck around corners. especially in low light situations. I do really recommend mirrors instead. Something sortof what a dentist might use.

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 am

Well if it is dark in the room, you will not see anything with a mirror. But if it is light enough to use the mirror, and you can do it safely and you have the time, then yes use the mirror.

Post Reply

Return to “CQB entry tactics / room clearing”