"They use whatever they want"

Forum to discuss all related topics on Special Forces.

Moderators: jimothy_183, Admin

Post Reply [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2796
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

"They use whatever they want"

Post by Ryan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:10 am

Is this true?

I hear a lot of people talk of how they use this, and that, and this. Insert MASSIVE list.

Everything from Delta, the SAS using AK's, G36's, FAL's, even six-shooters, shortened barrel shotties and a mixture of weaponry you'd automatically think, "Yeah... right!" ... But how credible is this information? Any thoughts or references/sources?

http://board.gearsoc.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8317
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:16 am

Well from what I can tell SOF guys generally have more lattitude in terms of gear and other things. But they have are given these freedoms because they are expected to be more knowledgeable and use this knowledge to better complete the mission.

As they say, leave it to the professionals.

EDIT:

I don't know who the author is but this book seems to agree with some of whats been discussed.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
tacticalguy
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by tacticalguy » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:31 am

SOF teams train with weapon systems from other countries for two reasons. One, familiarity with those systems makes it easier when the teams have to utilize those systems in an improvised situation. Two, using weapon systems that are widely used by several different countries helps the Military Command Authority employ "plausible deniability" in so called "black ops".
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by jimothy_183 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:15 pm

I would add that knowledge of foreign weapons would be directly applicable in FID ops.

As for the "plausible denialibility" reason, this image is one of few examples that can be found on the internet:

Image
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
tacticalguy
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by tacticalguy » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 pm

jimothy_183 wrote:I would add that knowledge of foreign weapons would be directly applicable in FID ops.
Exactly so! I thought I had included that observation, also. Thanks for picking up my slack, sir! :)
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by jimothy_183 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:32 am

No problem sir. :)
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2796
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by Ryan » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:27 am

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
tire iron
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:23 am
Location: utah, usa
Contact:

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by tire iron » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:18 am

In my experience - most of the *true* SF types that have been the game for more than a couple years don't really care what long arm you put in their hands. I know I don't really care what long (rifle/carbine) or short (handgun) you give me - I either already know how to run it, or I will figure it out in short order if there is no one around to show the manual of arms.

They are all just tools. Some tools are better at some missions than other tools - so I would choose the best tool for the job. My choice wouldn't be based on any emotional "favorite". So the term "use whatever they want" to me doesn't hit the target. "Use what they think is best for the mission at hand" is what nails it.

Hope this helps,

cheers

tire iron
Your enemies desire to live is probably more powerful than the ammunition you are carrying. Plan accordingly
http://tireironscorner.blogspot.com
http://tireironblog.com

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2796
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by Ryan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:13 am

I've heard that a few times that it is purely mission orientated, but at the same time I have heard personal preference goes a long way depending what's good to go in the armory and in-theater. Then again, after reading a book about the PF just as they were about to cross the border they were ordered to use L85's over their M4's. Bureaucracy. At the same time reading "No Easy Day", every issued rifle was customized to that operators specification whether it came to trigger pull weight or what attachments you used. Matt had a mixture of issued weapons from the MP7A1 to a HK417 (10" and 14") along with numerous pistols. You have your team equipment (team bag and lockers plus individual), your lists of what you're going to need for the job: recommended and critical. Your "go bags" are purely what you need to complete the job. With other bits of kit you can go to the civilian market. Then comes logistics, availability (stock), bureaucracy, mission, team and individual preference. At best you want inter-operable calibers (i.e. most of the team rocking 5.56) and at times AK's, so on, aren't used because of possible friendly fire issues. At the same time the amount of weapons that SF transition through whether it's for research and development (even going to the SHOT show and the like), testing and trailing to using it in Afghanistan, every weapon platform will have a process before it's used or even considered to be used hence why M4/M16 platform and other known and tested firearms are used more widely by the community; never mind the fact that it is a training platform too, what they have known since basic on up. It's easier therefore to transition to a C8 or a SCAR rather than to a bullpup or exotic weapon. But as you say the best weapon is what you have in your hands, what you are using at the time. The true weapon is inbetween your eyes. "All weapons, one mind".
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

badger
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:54 pm
Location: Slovakia
Contact:

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by badger » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:55 pm

I was in FBI HRT cages and armory and they really have what they want ;)

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2796
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: "They use whatever they want"

Post by Ryan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:38 am

Image
Image
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Special Forces”