What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Use this forum to chat abort anything else related to CQB.

Moderators: jimothy_183, Admin

Post Reply [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
User avatar
tacticalguy
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Post by tacticalguy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:15 am

Recently, I've been asked this question in a couple of different online groups that I participate in. When that happens in r/l, from guys going through one of my classes, what I usually ask in response is, "What do you think a 'shooter/operator' is"? Their response is varied, "Uhhhh..." "Like the guys on 'Strike Back!'" "Metal Gear Solid!" "Rambo!" The last guy usually has to recycle a few times before he has the BS knocked out of his head or he decides to drop the class. Understanding that most people have no idea what a shooter/operator is, much less what goes into making one, brings you back to -1. A shooter/operator is someone who has graduated from a comprehensive tactical operations school and gone on to their unit to spend anywhere from six months to a year, minimum, being the rookie, probie, cherry, FNG, what-have-ya, until that unit's shooter/operators are comfortable enough to take him around the block. That newbie has gone through SWAT school, Ranger School, BUDs or the Q Course to get to his unit. Once there, he not only has to carry water for everyone else, he trains constantly to bring his "game" up to his team's level. Not just by practicing the same techniques and tactics he already learned but, by learning many more from his team. When his probationary period is almost up, they start pushing him to find fault with those same tactics and techniques. If he can't see how that training can be turned around on him, if he can't begin to "think outside the box", they move him over to a support position. He's not a shooter/operator. He can't take what he's learned and create something different. Being a shooter/operator isn't like being an actor and following a script. You have to be able to go off the reservation, on your own, sometimes. You have to be able to think, not give "programmed" responses.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Post by jimothy_183 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:22 am

I can see how this description lines up with the "thinkers before shooters" saying that Travis Haley coined but what about mindset? I believe that it is the most important asset to a shooter/operator as if one fails there then they will fail all else at the moment of truth no matter how good they are in all other aspects.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
tacticalguy
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Post by tacticalguy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:37 pm

jimothy_183 wrote:I can see how this description lines up with the "thinkers before shooters" saying that Travis Haley coined but what about mindset? I believe that it is the most important asset to a shooter/operator as if one fails there then they will fail all else at the moment of truth no matter how good they are in all other aspects.
Either I have had not enough sleep or too much of it to decipher this right now, mate.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

User avatar
tacticalguy
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Post by tacticalguy » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:21 pm

jimothy_183 wrote:I can see how this description lines up with the "thinkers before shooters" saying that Travis Haley coined but what about mindset? I believe that it is the most important asset to a shooter/operator as if one fails there then they will fail all else at the moment of truth no matter how good they are in all other aspects.
Okay, now I understand what you're asking. The mindset is what makes the shooter/operator able to think outside the box. If he never gets the mindset, he'll never be able to see what the rest of his team is doing, which is being able to plan several steps ahead, even on the fly. That's the difference between acting and reacting. Even if you suddenly find yourself in a bad situation, you should have been paying enough attention to your environment that you can extricate yourself, causing damage and harm to your assailants while letting your team know what's going on and what you're going to do about it. That's the way I was trained, at least.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2796
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Post by Ryan » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:04 am

"How do I become a sniper?" - "What makes a warrior?" - Same questions, same responses. Go to class, come out with the stuff, modify it to yourself, prove it in the team and make it work for the team. Rob Maylor's book, an SASR Sniper Team took a shot at a Taliban dude taking a shit up in the mountains, heavy winds, at 300 meters and missed: Are they still snipers? Yes but at a lower grade, reputation is the works. At the same time keeping up to date is the works. You can't be a Doctor rocking 30 year old techniques! As like the Samurai, there were many different classes. As with shooters and operators, there are many different classes -- You have to keep to a high standard to be a "true" version. A lot of training systems are modeled (modules) approaches with grading systems, below that is the fail line... This isn't what you base being a shooter on, you base that off the foundations of which that training gave you knowing full-well that education and the education systems are channels of communication to develop yourself, not necessarily preaching 100% reality to your unique situation hence why the focus is on self and team. But as stated by many Operators, "there is no true fit"... A bunch of miss-match misfits who make themselves fit!
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Post by jimothy_183 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:14 am

tacticalguy wrote: Okay, now I understand what you're asking. The mindset is what makes the shooter/operator able to think outside the box. If he never gets the mindset, he'll never be able to see what the rest of his team is doing, which is being able to plan several steps ahead, even on the fly. That's the difference between acting and reacting. Even if you suddenly find yourself in a bad situation, you should have been paying enough attention to your environment that you can extricate yourself, causing damage and harm to your assailants while letting your team know what's going on and what you're going to do about it. That's the way I was trained, at least.
Well it's more than just that as you could say that mindset also involves the highly disciplined practice of general readiness. Take the minuteman concept for example. One could be tactically, technically proficient and have all the latest gear but without that mindset of readiness they will fail when they have to face a situation. I remember someone told me about a conversation they had with a former SF operator, he said that it was strange because while the guy was very polite he also had the look in his eye like as if he was alert for an attack. Again it's to do with mindset to assume that everyone and anyone can be a threat to you.

It's like James Yeager says in his videos that he does not consider someone who puts their gun back in it's case and drives off after class to be in the fighting mindset. What if they get carjacked soon after? Will they be able to defend themselves in time?
General James N. Mattis USMC wrote: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
tacticalguy
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: What makes a "shooter/operator"?

Post by tacticalguy » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:27 pm

Okay, now I think that we're all basically saying the same thing at this point, just different phrasing.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “General Discussions”