The AK!

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The AK!

Postby Ryan » Sun May 27, 2012 3:27 am

Why are AK's popular in some counter-terrorism teams around the world?
Of course cost, interoperability etc but you do you think of them as CQB weapons?

7.62, 5.56, 5.45.

There are LOTS of type of AK out there, what would be your configuration and choice in the best for CQB?
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Re: The AK!

Postby jimothy_183 » Mon May 28, 2012 12:23 pm

semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus
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Re: The AK!

Postby Breacher01 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:09 pm

I recently got an AK-105 for sports. its in between a full length AK/M-74 and an AKS/U. I use it for sporting, but it would do me right when shtf around the house. its a full-auto. I love AK's and field stripping them.
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Re: The AK!

Postby Alfa47 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:31 am

Ryan wrote:Why are AK's popular in some counter-terrorism teams around the world?


Because the badass mofos that use them are Slavs, just like me. #AKmasterrace

They are great rifles. They are great for covert ops, they are highly modular with a few modifications, they come in various different shapes and sizes for different purposes(someone even made an AK DMR/sniper...)
The recoil of the 5.45 is very soft, with the right muzzle brake it is even softer.
It is an incredibly simple yet powerful system which is over-reliable and pretty accurate. Not too accurate, but accurate enough for combat.
I love it.
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Re: The AK!

Postby Alfa47 » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:32 am

Breacher01 wrote:I recently got an AK-105 for sports. its in between a full length AK/M-74 and an AKS/U. I use it for sporting, but it would do me right when shtf around the house. its a full-auto. I love AK's and field stripping them.


Full auto for sports... damn, you've got some nice gun laws. The AK-105 is a sweet rifle, probably my favorite.
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Re: The AK!

Postby Breacher01 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:12 am

Its only because I have an armored vehicle with automatics, cat4 body armor and tactical pyrotechnics parked in front of my house I get to own and shoot automatics at government owned ranges I get to own and shoot an automatic rifle for sports.

In my country the only ones owning and using the same sorts of arms are criminals, and fortunately they use the ones they have more on their criminal colleagues. Sometimes someone gets killed for mistaken identities, and even rarer in the cross-fire, but citizens don't own automatic weapons.

our gun laws are actually very strict. fatalities by bullets are rare, and most of the times people who got shot turn out to have connections to criminals or crime.

sports shooting with automatics is allowed for the privileged few, under strict rules.

Gun laws over here are very strict, I defend our population daily, so I get to shoot my 105 at times.

I have an MP5mkII and an 416 in the company car, and a G17 on my body when off work, but also including a III vest when doing groceries etc.

Civilians don't ever need an ak-105 ever, and that's how it should be, even semi automatic weapons with 30Rds, like in some U States are ridiculous if you ask me. Illegal elephant hunters use bolt-action rifles... Why should a civilian need a 30rnd full-automatic rifle effective up to and including 500 yards? In the US they mostly use 1 shot dart guns at the largest dangerous mammals.

But it is a fun rifle, and handy when need be with 11,6cm shorter, and a folding stock. :wink:
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Re: The AK!

Postby tacticalguy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:56 am

Breacher01 wrote:Civilians don't ever need an ak-105 ever, and that's how it should be, even semi automatic weapons with 30Rds, like in some U States are ridiculous if you ask me. Illegal elephant hunters use bolt-action rifles... Why should a civilian need a 30rnd full-automatic rifle effective up to and including 500 yards? In the US they mostly use 1 shot dart guns at the largest dangerous mammals.


Honestly, I'm glad that your laws regarding firearms make you happy. I live in South Florida. I own an AR. Yes, I use it for training but, even if I didn't need it for that, I could still have it. I've used an AR to hunt deer before, quite successfully. In the U.S., the only fully automatic firearms that are available for civilians to purchase and own, are those that were manufactured prior to '86. That requires you apply to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Enforcement (BATFE), pass a VERY extensive background check, submit fingerprints and a current personal photo, register the firearm wherever you reside, get permission to take it across state lines and pay any applicable tax. Here in the U.S., we're having very vigorous debate about one specific part of your comment, "Why should a civilian need a 30rnd full-automatic rifle". The Second Amendment supporters question who is able to decide what another citizen "NEEDS"? I tend to agree with that question. I know that I was told in my 7th grade Science class, that Man had only 4 basic NEEDS to survive: Air, Water, Food and Shelter. Everything else is a want. No one is able to dictate what another human being can want or not want.
Yup, that's a contentious argument between the Right and Left in the U.S.
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Re: The AK!

Postby Breacher01 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:27 am

Indeed I am happy with the strict firearms laws we have here. Personally I think people who need to exercise their right to "open-carry" long rifles could find better past-times if they gave it a little more thought, but if its your lawful right you could do that. Even if its the right to arm bears...

For hunting deer a 5.56 Nato/ .223 cartridge seems a little light to me, In my country hunting with weapons not adequate to instantly kill an animal are against the rules, and calibers are unrestricted. With 30 chances to kill game i'm sure you should be successful.

Also I'm not really restricted what weapons I own, because I work as a LEO with automatics and various pistols, so I've undergone the mother of all background checks. I'm a registered and licensed fire-arms instructor as well.

The only problem with weapon laws are that criminals don't care about them, and that goes for every country. According to research having a part of the community carrying legal firearms, both open or concealed only makes the percentage of people having a gunshot wound somewhere in their lives, by accident or aggression only increases.

Five years ago we always worked with NIJ IIIA body armor. since about that time criminals all got kalashnikovs, and shoot each other with it, but also keep them in view for home defense. So my conclusion is that gun laws work, but only for people who would otherwise also treat their weapons with respect and care.
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Re: The AK!

Postby tacticalguy » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:20 am

Breacher01 wrote:Indeed I am happy with the strict firearms laws we have here. Personally I think people who need to exercise their right to "open-carry" long rifles could find better past-times if they gave it a little more thought, but if its your lawful right you could do that. Even if its the right to arm bears...

I think that armed bears would actually even things up off in the woods.

Breacher01 wrote:For hunting deer a 5.56 Nato/ .223 cartridge seems a little light to me, In my country hunting with weapons not adequate to instantly kill an animal are against the rules, and calibers are unrestricted. With 30 chances to kill game i'm sure you should be successful.

I'm a fairly consistent shot out to around 800 yards. Not as good as I was in the Army but, not bad. I've never needed more than one round to drop a deer. I don't trophy hunt, I eat the meat so, I don't need the head intact.

Breacher01 wrote:Also I'm not really restricted what weapons I own, because I work as a LEO with automatics and various pistols, so I've undergone the mother of all background checks. I'm a registered and licensed fire-arms instructor as well.

I'm also a licensed LE firearms firearms instructor. I teach the NRA LE Handgun/Shotgun, Tactical Shooting and Patrol Rifle courses besides mentoring local SRT members. I visit two to three LE-only ranges a week to shoot with friends. I regularly re-certify LEOs for their annual and biannual requirements.

Breacher01 wrote:The only problem with weapon laws are that criminals don't care about them, and that goes for every country. According to research having a part of the community carrying legal firearms, both open or concealed only makes the percentage of people having a gunshot wound somewhere in their lives, by accident or aggression only increases.

Can't disagree with any of that. I understand, your country's national identity isn't tied to a bloody fight for independence. That tends to be how we still view ourselves, for better or worse, as rebels who refuse to pushed around by the older kids on the block.

Breacher01 wrote:Five years ago we always worked with NIJ IIIA body armor. since about that time criminals all got kalashnikovs, and shoot each other with it, but also keep them in view for home defense. So my conclusion is that gun laws work, but only for people who would otherwise also treat their weapons with respect and care.
Again, can't disagree with any of those statements. I'm aware that criminals could care less about lawful behavior. I'm also aware that the only ones who will follow gun laws are those that would be the least likely to break the law in the first place.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: The AK!

Postby Breacher01 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:29 pm

What ammo and barrel do you use on your ar? 5.56/.223 normally isn't accurate at 800 yards. Thats more .308 match grade territory. I've missed bursts with a mounted .50 cal at that range.

And indeed regardless of regulation in my country criminals use ak's at an increasing rate. The police here isn't equipped to handle that, with level 3a vests and 9mm handguns. Also the rounds hit innocent people more, last week after a bar fight some idiots came back and emptied 60 rnds in the bar. I suppose you can get an idea of the results...

Oh, also terrorists use them, but that's a rare occasion. I the news they make a big deal out of it, but statistically its one of the rarest events you may encounter(civilians I mean).
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Re: The AK!

Postby tacticalguy » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:39 am

Breacher01 wrote:What ammo and barrel do you use on your ar? 5.56/.223 normally isn't accurate at 800 yards. Thats more .308 match grade territory. I've missed bursts with a mounted .50 cal at that range.

I've seen someone use an AR-15 that could hit out to 600 yards. I wouldn't use one past 400 yards, myself. I've used an AR-10 that was reliable out to 900 yards but, it wasn't off the rack. It had some very nice optics and had been 'smithed to a high degree.

Breacher01 wrote:And indeed regardless of regulation in my country criminals use ak's at an increasing rate. The police here isn't equipped to handle that, with level 3a vests and 9mm handguns. Also the rounds hit innocent people more, last week after a bar fight some idiots came back and emptied 60 rnds in the bar. I suppose you can get an idea of the results...

Oh, also terrorists use them, but that's a rare occasion. I the news they make a big deal out of it, but statistically its one of the rarest events you may encounter(civilians I mean).
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: The AK!

Postby Breacher01 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:09 pm

I've seen someone hit a person at 1100 yards with the first cold barrel shot, but that doesn't mean 'normal' humans can.

You're right to quote that the problem with criminals usually is they don't care about laws, that' s why they're criminal to start with. Particularly gun laws, because that's the tool they use to commit crimes, defend themselves from other criminals and law enforcement etc.

Regardless I Find great pleasure in shooting my AK-105, somehow the AK platform, as crude as it is, gives me a better feeling. Izhmash AK's do have a nicer feeling then most stock eastern Europe/former CCCP produced rifles. But I have to admit I'm glad these weapons are very strictly regulated in my country, even owning a full auto example myself.

Anyone interested in pic's of my setup? How about posting pics and spec's of yours?
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Re: The AK!

Postby tacticalguy » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:29 am

I attended sniper school in the Army. My longest shot was 1780 yds. That was with a .50 rifle.
I don't post pictures online that can be stolen.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: The AK!

Postby Breacher01 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:52 am

I'm unsure about the amount of pixels, and objective and chip qualities of your camera, but you would have an awesome one showing actually you shooting/hitting at similar ranges. :D (not that it would be possible with the hubble telescope to get bothin focus :lol: )

My best shot hitting a 10" disposable bbq plate was at approximately 400yrds(just under 400m, but over 385). Its was with a 416 with 4x ACOG, from bench rest using custom 5.56 rounds. First shot was dead center, but I got of 9, all hits, before the plate disintegrated.

Therefore I think regular and adapted 5.56mm rifle systems in real life are only effective up to 600m.

For the .308, .50 and similar long reaching calibers it really depends if you have a long range rifle, scope and ballistics calculator. There are some account of people shooting things 1,5km away with a cold barrel shot, and some rare ones seem to have occurred up to 2300m, but I think those are so rare they are all recorded.

My 105 has a leaf spring sight ranging up to 550m, but thats a far stretch from the possibilities you have with the short distance between the sights. I have seen dudes in west-afrika shooting RPK and PKM guns with their rear sight flipped up to the front engage vehicles at 800m, but we never got to see the effect on target. Ex cccp guys often use PKM 45rnds mags to return fire.

Russian gun design and mentality allows for great versatility in the field, but the methods they use are questionable at best.
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