Another shooting-Las Vegas

Moderator: jimothy_183

Another shooting-Las Vegas

Postby tacticalguy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:06 pm

Stephen Paddock, 64, shot and wounded at least 200 at a concert on the Las Vegas Strip, Oct 1, 2017, killing 50. This will no doubt reverberate throughout the U.S. and provoke another discussion about civilian ownership of firearms.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)
User avatar
tacticalguy
 
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Another shooting-Las Vegas

Postby Ryan » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:31 am

Crazy, crazy world.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."
User avatar
Ryan
 
Posts: 2780
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am

Re: Another shooting-Las Vegas

Postby Breacher01 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:53 am

No, Crazy Culture. I'm reading up, because there's no training this morning. So I have time to try and show with dependable facts and statistics This is spiralling out of control.


[...]Paddock arrived at the hotel on September 25, 2017. He placed a "Do not disturb" sign on his door, organized the room, and stockpiled an arsenal of weapons. Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Paddock carried more than ten suitcases into his hotel suite during his preparation for the shooting.

Twenty-three firearms, a large quantity of ammunition, and numerous high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 100 rounds apiece were found in the suite.The firearms included AR-15 variants manufactured by Daniel Defense, FN Herstal, and Lewis Machine and Tool Company, as well as Kalashnikov and AR-10 pattern rifles. Two of the rifles were equipped with telescopic sights and mounted on tripods. Audio recordings of the attack indicated Paddock sustained a high rate of fire, using either a fully automatic weapon, or a semi-automatic weapon utilizing devices to simulate fully automatic fire. Bump fire stocks were found on twelve of the guns, which allowed for the recoil to actuate the trigger at a rate of 90 bullets in 10 seconds. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives determined the guns were legal and legally acquired by Paddock.


The phrase "...leaving 58 people dead and 489 injured." sickens me and is an unimaginable amount of harm caused by a single individual. Are bump-fire-stocks an unregistered gun accessoire in Nevada\US? Why would you make full-auto weapons stricktly licenced, but sell a cheap alternative freely?

When I listen to audio caught of his 10 minute killing spree I notice he's very adept at using his modified weapons. I've seen and handled a Diemaco C8NLD fitted with such a stock on it, and only the instructor who owned it could empty a mag in 1 go.

Can the majority of US citizens not compare simple statistics?

This situation is extremely unlikely to happen in the old world. This is probably the most similar case we had in europe after WWII, and gladly until today.
[...]The incident is the deadliest mass shooting committed by an individual in the United States, surpassing the death toll of the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, where 49 died, excluding the gunman.


The quoted event happened just last year...

The main difference is its an attack on unarmed students isolated on an island. Also Breivik took years of preparing for his horrible act partly because he could not obtain all his required arnament.

Compared to:
Police found 22 rifles and one handgun inside the hotel room he had occupied since September 25. The firearms, along with more guns found in his homes, had been legally purchased in the states of Nevada, California, Texas, and Utah. During subsequent investigations, ammonium nitrate, often used in improvised explosive devices, was found in the trunk of his car, along with 1,600 rounds of ammunition and 50 pounds (23 kg) of Tannerite, a binary explosive used to make explosive targets for gun ranges. Undersheriff Kevin McMahill said that while Paddock had "nefarious intent" with the material, he did not appear to have assembled an explosive device


What was deputy McMahill thinking he was planning or preparing for? A Barbeque? Is in an investigation the possesion of Fertilizer, 50lbs of Explosive, 1600 Cartidges in your trunk? All this is not a reason to at least observe someone very closely because he "did not appear" to have assembled an explosive?

Whitehouse memo states: "
new laws won't stop a mad man", but "will curtail the freedoms of law abiding citizens
". Yet
police found 22 rifles and one handgun inside the hotel room he had occupied since September 25. The firearms, along with more guns found in his homes, had been legally purchased in the states of Nevada, California, Texas, and Utah.



Meanwhile in the US of A
"stock prices of firearms manufacturers rose the day after the shooting, as has happened after similar incidents. Investors expect gun sales will increase over concerns that such an event could lead to more stringent gun-control legislation and a rush of customers wishing to defend themselves against future attacks"
. The Irony...

This Wikipedia article states for instance:
Compared to 22 other high-income nations, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is 25 times higher. Although it has half the population of the other 22 nations combined, the U.S. had 82 percent of all gun deaths, 90 percent of all women killed by guns, 91 percent of children under 14 and 92 percent of young people between ages 15 and 24 killed by guns. In 2010, gun violence cost U.S. taxpayers approximately $516 million in direct hospital costs.


And some more statistics:
The effectiveness and safety of guns used for personal defense is debated. Studies place the instances of guns used in personal defense as low as 65,000 times per year, and as high as 2.5 million times per year. Under President Clinton, the Department of Justice conducted a survey in 1994 that placed the usage rate of guns used in personal defense at 1.5 million times per year, but noted this was likely to be an overestimate.

Between 1987 and 1990, McDowall et al. found that guns were used in defense during a crime incident 64,615 times annually (258,460 times total over the whole period). This equated to two times out of 1,000 criminal incidents (0.2%) that occurred in this period, including criminal incidents where no guns were involved at all. For violent crimes, assault, robbery, and rape, guns were used 0.83% of the time in self-defense


Handguns figured in the Virginia Tech massacre, Binghamton shootings, 2009 Fort Hood shooting, Oikos University shooting, and 2011 Tucson shooting. The Aurora theater shooting and the Columbine High School massacre were committed by assailants armed with multiple weapons.


And a special fact for Mr. Trump:

At least eleven assassination attempts with firearms have been made on U.S. presidents (over one-fifth of all presidents); four were successful, three with handguns and one with a rifle.


Or the way legally sold guns lose their checked owner:

only 18% of guns used criminally that were recovered in 1998 were in possession of the original owner. Guns recovered by police during criminal investigations were often sold by legitimate retail sales outlets to legal owners, and then diverted to criminal use over relatively short times ranging from a few months to a few years, which makes them relatively new compared with firearms in general circulation.


The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, enacted in 1994, included the Federal Assault Weapons Ban, and was a response to public concern over mass shootings. This provision prohibited the manufacture and importation of some semiautomatic firearms with certain features relevant to military use such as a folding stock, pistol grip, flash suppressor, and magazines holding more than ten rounds. A grandfather clause was included that allowed firearms manufactured before 1994 to remain legal( see previous quote. A short-term evaluation by University of Pennsylvania criminologists Christopher S. Koper and Jeffrey A. Roth did not find any clear impact of this legislation on gun violence


Economist John Lott has argued that right-to-carry laws create a perception that more potential crime victims might be carrying firearms, and thus serve as a deterrent against crime. Lott's study has been criticized for not adequately controlling for other factors, including other state laws also enacted, such as Florida's laws requiring background checks and waiting period for handgun buyers. When Lott's data was re-analyzed by some researchers, the only statistically significant effect of concealed-carry laws found was an increase in assaults


From a European standpoint the facts and statistics are so obvious against a heavilly armed population are so easy to find and interpret.

1. Criminals don't care about gun laws. Gun laws don't work.
2. The US has(and has always had) significantly more gun victims then some countries that are at war.
3. US Citizens think they are safer owning a gun. This is obvously false.
4. The gun industry in the US is a massive market with maybe a bit much influence.
5. Politicians can't afford to speak out against the gun owners and lobby.
6. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Nobody wants to be the only one without a gun. Your gun should be better then the threat that may never come.
7. Even smaller counties in the US have "SWAT" teams driving around in milion dollar armored verhicles. Its an arms race between gun owners, criminals who target gun owners, LE that tries to outgun the criminals and finally citizens arm to control the "evil" governement. Here the circle is complete back to the scared citizens.

Our defense forces medical core sends personel to mayor US cities to get experience with trauma as a result of the use of firearms before we send them to Mali, Afghanistan and other peace keeping missions. The gang violence, violence against police and the mass shootings are terrible, and i feel for the victims, but statistically its obvious it will keep happening if nothing is changed in the culture.

Enjoy your own research and make up your own mind. This is just my view.
Breacher01
 
Posts: 325
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:42 pm


Return to Off-Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron