Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

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tacticalguy
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Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by tacticalguy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:08 am

Myth: As long as I'm prepared, no one is going to surprise me.
Fact: ANY one can be surprised. Professionals should have a high alertness level and a few versatile weapon retention techniques in their toolbox for that eventual surprise.

Myth: As long as my weapon is holstered on my belt, strong side, I can pin the weapon with my arm and fight off an attacker with my weak arm.
Fact: Look at the above statement very closely. Do you see a problem? You're going to fight off one or more attackers with your "weak" arm?

Myth: I have MMA experience so if we go to the ground in the struggle for my weapon, I can outlast the attacker.
Fact: MMA really has nothing to do with weapon retention or fighting for your life against someone determined to take your weapon away from you and possibly take your life.

Myth: Any martial arts experience makes me at least as prepared as someone who has no martial arts background and only taken a weapon retention class.
Fact: Martial arts arrogance will leave you dangling in the wind when an attacker pepper sprays you in an effort to take your weapon.

Myth: I don't need weapon retention since I'm on a tactical team and we always work as a team.
Fact: Poll your other team members. I would be willing to bet that if there are any members that have been there longer than six months, they've already taken a class on weapon retention. That's not for their resume. Some times, teams get separated.

This isn't meant as an attack on anyone's opinion or experience. These are just a few of the statements that I've heard over the several years. I hoped this might serve as a cautionary post.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

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Ryan
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Re: Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by Ryan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:46 am

Great topic.

On the first point. I saw a video by Rob Pincus, it was a segment of a scenario based training event in which the former SOF operator walks into the bar, only to be attacked. He doesn't know when, where from or how, but he KNOWS it is going to happen. What happens? He is STILL startled. That 'shock' response some scientists believe is our heart 'kicking us into motion', some even believe our heart is connected to our neurological system and it sends a message to the brain, just a thought. We may mentally try to prepare ourselves or expect it but eventually it'll hit you, sometimes at an uncontrollable level. Some people find expecting it, "When I go around this corner, it's going to happen", helps. Whatever you do, learn to 'ride the wave'. Ride the shock, and put it into motion - don't freeze. A spontaneous freeze is fine but if you don't put it into motion it's more than a 'freeze' it's a psychological response that should be happening but isn't - that you have to learn to control.

On the last point: "Individuals work within teams, professional development doesn't mean do the training then stop learning."
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

civiliansheepdog
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Re: Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by civiliansheepdog » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:54 am

Hahah MMA experience, I like that

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jimothy_183
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Re: Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by jimothy_183 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:01 am

Ryan wrote:professional development doesn't mean do the training then stop learning
Yeah I like a similar saying to that. Can't remember what it was though, but it meant the same thing. Summary is that we are students from the start of our lives to the end of it.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

mcwayne86
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Re: Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by mcwayne86 » Fri May 03, 2013 1:23 am

great thread to talk with

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Ryan
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Re: Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by Ryan » Fri May 03, 2013 4:32 am

jimothy_183 wrote:
Ryan wrote:professional development doesn't mean do the training then stop learning
Yeah I like a similar saying to that. Can't remember what it was though, but it meant the same thing. Summary is that we are students from the start of our lives to the end of it.
And the cup is never full, it always spills over. Deliberate practice.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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tacticalguy
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Re: Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by tacticalguy » Fri May 03, 2013 4:08 pm

Ryan wrote:And the cup is never full, it always spills over. Deliberate practice.
See? Pure brilliance. :)
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

Davo
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Re: Weapon Retention: Myth VS Fact

Post by Davo » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:08 pm

When I teach holstered retention I begin with sucker punch and choke escape drills and stress the importance of staying conscious in order to retain the firearm. Then we have a discussion about kit that's fit for purpose - i.e. appropriate for the officers role, sturdy belt, sturdy buckle with retention features, inner belt and belt keepers and a holster that's rock solid. In short, anyone can be caught off guard and your kit MUST be able to withstand that first second or two of a violent disarming attempt before the Officer can regain his senses and counter the disarm attempt. What should be common sense is sometimes seen as highly controversial, with utter disbelief and claims that the equipment shouldn't matter as the Officers retention technique alone should be enough.

Please watch this video from around the 1:00 mark at note the gun grab around the 1:07 mark and judge for yourself. The offender grabbed the gun mid take down before the Officer could react. It was sheer luck that nobody was shot. I often ask our students - "Have you tested both your equipment and your retention skills under REAL pressure? Did your Department? Would this holster and others like it have been placed into service for General Duties policing if it was subjected to a thorough testing regime?" (For the record we don't sell holsters so the only interest we have in this is Officer safety) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1j85RHp-mA

We have some of the most functional weapons retention tactics available, but even so, I'm not about to bet the lives of my students on tactics alone. Kit does play a part and quality kit is often overlooked in favour of the tacti-cool or some ego rot about mindset (as if mindset without skills is the answer).

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