Clinch Fighting

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Ryan
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Clinch Fighting

Post by Ryan » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:24 am

Should CQB operators work on clinch fighting techniques? I have seen the use in terms of a clinch in order for multiple operators to take-down the threat but in terms of coverman security it is hard for the coverman to engage the threat if a weapon is drawn (knife, pistol, whatever). A clinch would stop mobility, as would ground fighting. Nearly all fights start from a stood-up position (stand-up fighting) and is brought to a clinch or take-down to ground fighting or submitting the person through one of these phases. If the phases doesn't happen, it's probably because someone is knocked out!



Clinch here towards the end before his partner engages. Normally clinching and taking to the ground is better than stood-up fighting, especially for arrest.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by jimothy_183 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:22 am

Ryan wrote:Should CQB operators work on clinch fighting techniques?
I don't see why not.
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tacticalguy
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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by tacticalguy » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:50 pm

jimothy_183 wrote:
Ryan wrote:Should CQB operators work on clinch fighting techniques?
I don't see why not.
I agree. Never can tell when it will come in handy.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by Davo » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:44 pm

The bulk of my training is at clinch range. Put two committed men or animals together in a winner takes all real fight and the clinch is a certainty. The concept of long range is artificial in a real fight. A blend of thai clinch and greco roman limb and torso controls is a solid skillset and a great equaliser. Someone with basic clinch training can quickly and effectively shut down a striking offender while working towards a better dominant position, particularly if there is a partner assisting to control the offender. Sound clinch training should be considered mandatory, it's far more functional than the twisty locky stuff.

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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by tacticalguy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:07 am

Well, as someone who started out in the "twisty locky stuff" (aikido and aikijutsu) I can say that there are times when it's just not as applicable as some strategies from other systems. I think that operators who plan to work in a CQB environment should be versatile and trained to succeed in any possible situation. As I've stated in other posts, you can't always count on your other team mates to be there to back you up. That is the ideal but, we all know the reality can be quite different. If you get separated from your team for some reason and are in a clinch situation, you better know how to get out of it.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by civiliansheepdog » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:21 am

Clinch fighting for me is all about head butts and elbows. Or as I call it as the Bourne fighting or Taken fighting

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Ryan
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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by Ryan » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:20 am

Clinching to me can be a very unsafe practice if not correctly taught, as all things, but specifically when dealing in our scenarios being Law Enforcement or Military. Controlling someone in a clinch, who has weapon, is very difficult under high duress and with other partners coming into the room. Do you recommend clinching and patterning to expose angles for partners to get a shot off or to get involved in the tussle? As TG says knowing to get out of it is just as important. If you've had someone trying to clinch you, any underhand disconnect often has them back over the top trying to get back a hold from you. Whenever I pull away it's always after either a distraction or with an aid - finger in the eye, push against any form of sensory component to put them off a follow-up; and even if so, to make it as ineffective as possible.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by civiliansheepdog » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:28 pm

I would recommend to try to avoid being in a clinch situation.

Here are a some drills I would recommend because of their gross motor skills:
1) Spearing elbow to the chest, push, and present your weapon (firearm, knife, etc)
2) Palm strike to the face, push, and present your weapon
3) Pushing the shoulder joint( between your collar bone and bicep), move back, and present your weapon

There are many more drills but these three are my go, because it's very easy to retain and perform under duress

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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by nathanwagar » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:32 am

Clinch training is absolutely critical. You can't avoid the clinch, especially if you are an operator. If you are doing any kind of synchronized clearing technique whatsoever, you need to be able to control the suspect or threat out of the kill zone so that the rest of the team can continue. I will be releasing my take on this at some point, but suffice it to say for now that a good understanding of not just greco (underhooks, whizzers, etc), but also clothing grips, is crucial for maintaining control of large joints and steering the opponent to your desired location. Also, every effective knife defense system I have seen revolves around controlling the weapon arm. This takes clinch. There is no knife system against an aggressive stabbing that I have seen to date that will work effectively without using clinch.

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Re: Clinch Fighting

Post by ClearRight » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:49 am

Definitely useful. Moving in close quarters, if someone gets past your firearms (or doesn't need to be shot) and LTL options (including a good muzzle thump from a handgun or rifle), they tend to get past punching distance as well. Might as well train for clinches and grappling/ground fights. If they happen, get the subject/target out of the way and let your team take up the slack while you take control of the subject/target - along with a partner if need be.

Ground fighting, clinching or grappling can also make for a good workout, or be used as part of a workout. It's good mental training as well, if you pair up people correctly and don't let them tap out too quickly. Make them work until the end!
More guns and bullets make bad guys go away faster,
which in turn makes everyone in the area safer.
- Paul Howe

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