Unarmed Room Clearing

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Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Oulatta » Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:55 pm

Hello everyone,

I am new to this community but am keen to learn about CQB from experts such as yourself.

I live in Western Europe, in which firearms are not readily available. As a Brit, I did not grow up using guns, but have had some experience with such weapons in the third world. I have also studied H2H. Back in London and Paris (where I'm based) however, the chances of having one's home invaded by an armed (that is to say, fire-armed) assailant is minimal, but knife-crime and other forms of violence are out of control in certain areas. Recently, a friend of mine was badly injured confronting an intruder in his family home armed with a baton. I have therefore, two central questions.

1. When clearing a building not armed with a weapon, do the same tactics apply as per traditional CQB? That is to say, slicing the pie, path of least resistance etc. (I'm not asking about the basics of staying silent, relying on surprise etc.)

2. If not, what tactics would you rely on?

I look forward to reading any comments you may have.

Best wishes.
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby tacticalguy » Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:46 pm

Hello and welcome to the Forums! :D I will attempt to answer your question while simultaneously NOT deleting your post. :lol: First, call the local constabulary, if possible. CQB theory certainly applies whether you're armed with a firearm, a knife or empty handed when it comes to responding to a potential intruder in your home. You still want to "cut the pie" when you're edging around corners and doorways. Deception and misdirection are also important. Primary though, are you sure it's an actual intruder? ID'ing someone in the dark isn't always easy, I know but, you could be surprising a loved one. We've all seen funny sitcoms or movies where someone runs into a darkened room with a hockey stick/baseball bat/club and loud shouts erupt as well as ominous thumps. The lights come on and the person with the stick has beaten his buddy that he had given a key to. Bottom line? Be sure.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Ryan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:14 pm

You say unarmed - completely without any form of weapon, not even improvised?

Slicing the pie is not solely about getting an angle on someone but getting visual observation. Once this happens, decision processes kick in. That's what you want. So, yes, some do apply. Others not so much. I wouldn't be buttonhooking on a doorway with knife hands!
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"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Oulatta » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:32 pm

Hello,

Many thanks for your responses - lots of good stuff to think about! Obviously I would always rely on professional law-enforcers in this situation, so my enquiry is rather more academic (or refers to situations in which law-enforcement cannot be relied on; I've spent some time in countries in which this is very much the case!) and immediately applicable. Tacticalguy, you mention misdirection and deception - can you offer any practical tips or further insight into these two areas?

Thank you for your comment Ryan - when I say 'unarmed' I mean without a firearm. I understand that improvised projectiles, knives, even rolled-up magazines etc. can all be used in combat situations, but I would happily learn more from you on such things!

Also - probably a stupid question, but still - why not buttonhook with a knife?
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Ryan » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:44 pm

Why not buttonhook with a knife? Well, because you would be pushing yourself into visual contact and possibly physical contact range. You want to leave an exit route for yourself, and you want to get visual access on your opponent before you get into such a confrontation. This is important to 1. Prepare you both physically, physiologically and psychologically. 2. Allow you time to weigh up the threat. 3. Allow you time to formulate a response strategy. I would advocate not being involved in such a confrontation and trying to leave the house, phoning the police. The entry methods in the Tactical Trainer are made for someone with a weapon that normally reaches beyond our reach, that are meant for team entries in a permissive environment. Adaptable to civilian-use, but less likely so in the unarmed sense.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Oulatta » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:10 pm

Understood - and yes, in the first world I would always call the police rather than trying to get involved myself. However, hypothetically (or if in a country in which the police cannot be relied on)...

If facing an opponent/intruder who is not armed with a firearm, my feeling is that having obtained a visual, rushing the enemy (in the spirit of surprise, speed etc.) with an appropriate H2H attack (strike, throw, chin na etc.) would be the best option - do you have any additional thoughts on that? Is there any sense in approaching an assailant from an angle blocking a potential line of fire from any additional intruders?

I'm also very interested in the deception and misdirection concepts highlighted by tacticalguy - do either of you have any further thoughts on that?

Many thanks for your insights.
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby tacticalguy » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:31 pm

Misdirection- Causing a sound/noise that draws the intruder's attention. Calling the house phone with your cellphone for instance. Possibly so that your wife/girlfriend can run screaming like a banshee down the street to draw attention to your plight while you follow more slowly to help her elude pursuit? Small thrown fireworks are also good for that purpose.
Deception- Making a lot of noise to simulate a lot of people moving around. Talking in a hushed stage whisper and responding in your normal tone can make an intruder think that there are more people around than they counted on. I knew a guy that could imitate the biggest, meanest dog that you've ever seen. He could sound just like a 200lb Rottweiler, growling in your ear, when he wanted too.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Ryan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:34 am

My additional thoughts of that, is that unfortunately most hand-to-hand opportunities are purely situational, often very hard to replicate in reality unless you have overwhelmed the opponent and/or have back-up. The theory world would love to say, "Yeah, do that!" but the reality is that it is purely situational therefore what instructors often want is to foundationally drill into you situational awareness, the fundamentals of a hand-to-hand fight rather than solely techniques and operational definitions of how to do things. As TG said, imagine buttonhooking into a 200 pound, tattooed hardarse. Yeah, different thought-process all together, run! I think your body will be making the natural responses at that time for you.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Oulatta » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:19 pm

Many thanks for your comments,

I will bear all of this in mind.
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Re: Unarmed Room Clearing

Postby Breacher01 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:40 pm

Personally I think British police do an excellent job with Batons and Tasers. Just the facts about harm to officers, suspects and civilians are quite low, if memory servers me right.

CQB tactics without firearms, lets say with 60cm batons give an officer the reach of his arm and baton. 120cm/4ft seems a viable effective range.

Unless you are clearing porta potty's this seems unrelatable to normal cqb tactics. maybe throw a flashbanger in a portapotty and start whacking would do?

hard question.
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