British House Assaulting

Moderator: jimothy_183

Post Reply
cja100

British House Assaulting

Post by cja100 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:04 pm

Hey im part of a gaming clan that is looking a effective but fairly simple way of clearing/assaulting buildings. I have looked in a lot of CQB videos & manuals including this website.

I have been looking at British tactics and they seem to use a leapfrogging technique clear each room with two men.

I would be interested in what you guys think about the technique.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hmUd9Qqw1E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfIL8y6VTxI

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:12 am

Sorry for going off topic but I thought the second video was excellent in that it really took urban warfare at the company level in a simplistic manner.

By the way are you with GOL on ArmA?
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
geryban
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:59 pm
Location: HUNGARY
Contact:

Post by geryban » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:12 pm

Its very effective, if they have many handgrenades... :D (and praying walls made by stone). what about civilians? Its not a CQB... CQB starting, when they drop the last grenade. Normal Army's best answer for this situations: calculate with 50% damage.

If these are flashbangs, its bad too... Enemy learning fast. enemy is more professional then us. No surprise, they know we coming. They know, whats next, when the door open or breach. They simply shoot us after the BOOM. What about the professional, suicide enemies?

So its good for shows, presentations, and maybe for game, but not 4the real life. Its a WW2 tricks and these times are gone...
WORK HARD, PLAY HARD!

cja100

Post by cja100 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:49 pm

thanks for the feedback.

Yes I am from GOL ArmA clan, how did you know?

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:27 pm

Didn't take me long to figure out when I found your comment on the vid on youtube.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

Mad Bastard
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:19 pm
Location: Dark Continent

my opinion

Post by Mad Bastard » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:52 am

depends on teh size of teh room, and the size of teh clearing unit.
you can "leapfrog" with all sized elements in any environment, also known in the open as bounding and bounding overwatch. inside of structures you need to consider your personnel and teh size of the room. 3 men work better than 2 and with 4 men you can add rear security and extra firepower to get deeper into the room to cover oblique redzones.
2 men are hard pressed to clear corners first and then to turn on teh immediate threat to the front, but as mentioned before, that is dictated by the size of teh room and the size of clearing unit available.
Hungary is right about pretty much everything he said.
as well, urban conflict is categorized by being resource intensive (especially grenades) but then on teh small unit level you need to consider teh overpenetration, structural damage, civilian dimension, and other hazards relating to different types of grenade use during operations.
my recommendation for you gaming thing, would be to use teh 3 man stack at the point of entry/ breach, NOT to waste time to "prep the objective room" with any grenade or device, and to ues 1 man to take the well defined "path of least resistance" and him and 2 man clear corners while 3 man gets his muzzle in teh room and begins engaging, suppressing, and spraying all known or suspected enemy to the immediate front of the door from doorway to deep in opposing room corners while sidestepping fatal funnel, secondary considerations after this manuever should be not flagging redzones into next rooms and clearing behind any furniture or obstacles within room.
everybody thinks flashbangs are real cool, you can beat em with the "plug and shut" method of plugging your ears and shutting your eyes, grenades can be thrown back, and the enemy can rush you while your weapon is down after you have engaged the door and thrown the grenade.(or before) and again, thats if you dont waste your entire team due to overpenetration or causing teh building to collapse on top of you.
for the game and occaisionally in real life you can use a "rolling stack" of 2,3,or 4 men to rapidly enter the next room once initial room has been cleared, or quickly reload your weapons, and then restack and roll straight into the next room as fast as possible to maintain operational momentum and to prevent occupying enemy forces from mounting a counterattack or digging in too deep in the defense of the next room in you structure.
by technical definition room clearing operations have an acceptable 50% casualty rate to still be termed as a success, resource and casualty intensive, they arent something to play around with. if you have the advantage of a blueprint or a map of the internal building layout and a plan of assault then your 2 steps ahead. i refer you back to the 7 P's of operations
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
regards, The Mad Bastard

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: my opinion

Post by Ryan » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:08 am

Mad Bastard wrote:depends on teh size of teh room, and the size of teh clearing unit.
Yes, because you don't want to be slow. As seen in the video. As stated when window breaching - you are dealing with more panes of glass due to insulation and double to triple glazing. Simple problems slow you down.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Jack » Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:10 pm

I would suggest doing whatever tactic you understand and want to tryout. Airsoft isn't real life so you can afford to make mistakes and take casualties.

You will take casualties if you use this for airsoft though, heavy casualties.

Keep in mind this tactic is used in conjunction with surprise(not going to have that in airsoft), and the enemy will not surrender or run in airsoft(not real bullets and they are their to play).

Leapfrogging one of the early CQB tactics, a lot of improvements have been made since CQB was developed.

I would look into something else, but do what you like and understand.

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:46 am

One thing with the British Army is they engage through the intial entry points, and try to engage out of the room before entering. I see this a lot in FIBUA/FISH videos. For example, open door, engage down hallway--move in; cover next door, open and engage visible corners, move in. Some examples could be basically classed as running and gunning.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1024
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by jimothy_183 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:50 am

So your saying that the British soldiers are trained to use limited penetration as described in the other threads?
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:09 am

I'd say so. It's very similar.

"The firing from the door technique does work, but it relies on the shock and awe style of warfare. In operations, we try our best to use flashbangs and grenades for green and red entries [green - small arms, clean entry, possible civilians or unknown; red - explosive or while firing, or grenade entry], but we're trained how to do it if we don't have either of the above in case we run out of [or] we didn't take any for various reason [i.e. ROE] at the start of the mission."

I.e. open up the initial door to a hallway, engage down it, then others move in. Move into a room firing if confirmed enemy within that room.

You see it a few times here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfIL8y6VTxI. I've seen it in a few other videos and examples but I can't find them (namely basic training videos).
Last edited by Ryan on Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:19 am



A game. But this training session was taught by an ex-Brit Army guy.



Seen here in Dutch Army video around 20 seconds.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:33 pm

I learnt it can be called pre-fire or clear/clearance by fire/firing. Used when they guesstimate or confirm the enemies location, so they get the first rounds off as they go into the room. The Russians actually also use it, including having two people pre-fire whilst moving into the room, firing in their own AOR's. You shoot into your respective positions and adjust on contact. It's a great way to clear corners quickly and take out multiple threats while staying safer than conventional methods. Then you auto adjust to the immediate threat.

Leapfrogging below.



Problem for me is angles.
When one moves the enemy, if there, would get the angle on them from the barriers and uncleared areas.
When 1st man moves, 2nd man isn't there to cover his angles in some circumstances.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:30 am


All on the individual. Red entries with grenades, fast spin on the door-frame and into the threat. Not really caring about corners, etc.
Quick bounds, with covering fire. Use of cover. Not swapping weapon hands (ejection port, cartridge in your face).


Interesting small bounds - like 1-2m max towards the house. And the way they over-expose to shoot within the windows.


Lot's of smoke. Clearing above his eye-level. Vaulting in the back-alleys.


A game but with ex-BAF members. It kind of demonstrates all those instances when you are within 50m contact zones - woodlines, treelines, urban combat; street and building level.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:02 am


This guy has a few more cool videos.
Ladders used heavily, grenade entries and clearing top-down with cover/support team outside.

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:38 am


Grenade in on hard targets, red entry, firing as you enter, one coverman at all times. Enter different levels if possible.
Suppressive fire was well co-ordinated though, limited arcs so friendlies could move to their point of entry.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

Re: British House Assaulting

Post by Ryan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:39 pm



Note: Two different videos, part 2's are on the recommended side when you click on youtube.

Talks about:
- Green entries being slow and methodical, pie'ing before moving in.
- Red entries are on room contact with grenades. Used to clear the initial entry point.
- Double taps with cadence of shooting at a maximum 50m.
- Leapfrog and Leapfrogging. Internally bounding, example stairways.
And much more...

Red Entries:
"You NEVER lead with a grenade in ANY situation bar attack state red, this is when there is 100% certainty that there's no civilian population. However this is hardly ever the case, attack state amber is the most common entry method, rounds down and rifles in hand. After the case where the english reporter was killed not by her captor but from a marines grenade, the grenade should never be considered and entry tool."
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Post Reply

Return to “CQB Team TTP/S”