Its interesting... I think, they are to 2fast, they havent body contact, They use a wrong (and dangerous) low ready instead of SUL. In 0:15 The pointman open the door , and the pointman not shoot to the target in the front (booth is wrong).... So its not a good moving...
Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:11 pm
Great points gerryban. I noticed the lack of body contact was well and I agree with using SUL rather than low ready.
I don't however agree with you in saying that the first man should have engaged the target in front. The first man was simply following the patch of least resistance by crossing the doorway and clearing the left hard corner and leaving the second man to clear the other side of the room. What the first man did do wrong however was stop for a second to look at the target in front of the door as if he was thinking about whether or not to engage that target. What he should have done was stay facing the left hard corner as he crosses at the doorway without stopping or looking to the front of the room.
Also I'd just noticed that when the second man enters that same room he didn't clear his hard corner and went straight for the threat at the front as if he was using immediate threat/direct to threat.
One last thing that I noticed was in the first room where the second man hooked around the doorway very widely rather than hug the wall. I don't know if other people find this is acceptable however.
Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:36 pm
i understand your notice... It is right.... in the classroom maybe... You said: First man go to left hard corner, second go to the RIGHT CORNER (you dont said, but i think), and just a third goes to the front. Ok... Hope, they will be fast enough... Well, in real life, its a joke... Just talk about the operators cold blood in CQB situation, so he meet an enemy in front... he say: ok second man has... and turn to the left hard corner. Realy cool, and cold! I have never seen this type of people. And you? Its working in a training in a killhouse, but in a real life? NOOO... We try to prepare our students for a real situations, so... If you are in face to face with the danger you will shoot from the doorway to front... its a fact!!! YOU LL SHOOT!! YOU HAVE TO SHOOT!!! FAST!!! How can you cordinate, and dominate this situation? So, important in training, when the pointman SHOOT to the front, he have to move, and move, and turn to the hard corner, if he hit the target, or not... So, the real life methot have to this: pointman go first shoot to the front target (double tap, emergency shoot! ) on the move(!!!!) turn to the hard corner. Close behind, the second operator shoot to the front target on the turn, and go to the right hard corner. The third man shoot to the front target and hit it, hit,hit,hit...
So, maybe the first two operator cant hit the target, he suppressed the enemy till the third come... Its working in a real life, belive me... The oldschool methods face to well trained suspects... Death... Sure...
Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:07 pm
This one is pretty good video for CQB bounding when you want to back out of a structure.
Too bad for me, I missed most of it when it was on TV. And I would rent it but I can't seem to find it.
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:00 am
Good movie. Not more! Have mistakes, but not big ones (so, its not a tutorial video)... I like, when they moving in the building (in jimothy_183's video). Try the real: Its not a tipical 2MT method, but fine (freestile ))... Surprise, plan, movings, teamworks is broken allways, when enemy attacked... Like in real: No time, shoot back,supressing fire, dominate the hallway, keep the active cover (another word: you have to see the enemy, or know his position) go cover, reorganize the team, keep the contact, move back, or move forward, if its possible... It have to work intuitively (in skills, we trust...)
I think its a good video for showing 2MT team work. I like the flexibility, and position changings. we use this too for 2 or 4 MTs.
Our rule is: if you can dominate the hallway during searcing, one man never leave this AOR, so with 2MT one man doing the room clearing,one dominate the coridor.
Muzzleing and clearing rooms are a little bit sloppy and maybe they needed more body language, and more communications (mag change, contdown before lim. pen, and like this), and violence if they move fast like in this video. Only the pointman covering front sometime, the second doing i dont know what... fact: two guns covering front mean double firepower to the primary direction so if U can U have to (always find an AOR or support/cover your partner!)
rule: less gun, more tactical decision.
Have to make a tac.decision to make quick peak or lim.pen, mirror, pieing Have to make a tac.decision which is more important or better : The room or the corridor, rear or front, near corner or the far, crosscover or single stack, move slowly or faster, stealth or keep violence...
2MT trainings is not how need to move, and where for. Its how you make a best tac.decision very quickly, and how can U make it with lowest risk, and highest efficiency.
Don't like it. It's a good sequence for the camera but tactically is nothing.
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:26 am
I don't believe the Movie plot and the hostage situation is played out in a realistic manner, but I do believe that the communication and bounding is tactically sound. Although I wouldn't recommend the moving operator turn his back to move at that close distance with guns pointed at him.
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:13 pm
Jack wrote:I don't believe the Movie plot and the hostage situation is played out in a realistic manner, but I do believe that the communication and bounding is tactically sound. Although I wouldn't recommend the moving operator turn his back to move at that close distance with guns pointed at him.
Yes. You right.
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
jimothy_183 wrote: The first man was simply following the patch of least resistance by crossing the doorway and clearing the left hard corner and leaving the second man to clear the other side of the room.
...I could be wrong, but I heard somewhere that regardless what side you stack up... 1st goes in to the RIGHT. Regardless if that's a cross or buttonhook. Everyone else alternates. The reasoning is, something about 90% of ppl being right-handed, and when trying to frantically raise a weapon and squeeze off rounds, they are less-likely to hit the first man in, who would be going to their left. Maybe it's a myth, but what you guys think?
Re: Two man team videos
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:26 pm
Some teams dictate which direction the 1 man goes. Some don't. My issue with saying #1 man goes such and such a direction is what if there is no right side? What if it's blocked? If he runs up the wall he's still in the funnel, or he could conceivably block the rest of the team, slowing them down. In a real CQB situation, you have to be flexible and ready to go either direction on a moments notice. Hesitation will get you and your team killed.
Re: Two man team videos
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:49 am
Itsahak wrote:Some teams dictate which direction the 1 man goes. Some don't. My issue with saying #1 man goes such and such a direction is what if there is no right side? What if it's blocked? If he runs up the wall he's still in the funnel, or he could conceivably block the rest of the team, slowing them down. In a real CQB situation, you have to be flexible and ready to go either direction on a moments notice. Hesitation will get you and your team killed.
hmmm...well said. Thanks.
Re: Two man team videos
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:21 pm
Youtube video: "Slicing the pie" and basic 2-man entry with the use of High-low crisscross technique.
Re: Two man team videos
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:10 am
Great info. I've seen it before, but still great info. The only thing I have never understood is wagging the pistol up and down while pieing the corner. For the life of me I do not understand why somebody would do that.