Two man team videos

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Dramatikk

Re: Two man team videos

Post by Dramatikk » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:28 am

I quess that the pistol wagging just comes naturally for somebody. On the other hand, I believe this guy on the video was just trying to light up the room with the use of his flashlight.
I also tend to do the pistol wagging myself when I try out the "pie slicing" technique... :lol:

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geryban
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Re: Two man team videos

Post by geryban » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:46 am

Personaly, i dont like this "slowmotion" techniques. maybe its working in individual home defence, but it failed in professional FOF, against a highly trained personel, especially in low light. Too long time, too much focus to one point, noisy, and static. My oppinion is if you are alone in the dark (or not), be deadly silence, and use mirror (a f.cking big spoon, cheef knife, cake plate, or anithing else), or something "semi-limited" movements (dinamic pie, quick peak...), watch the next and remember the last bulletproof baricade, find a way to minimize the posible threat points and prepare for close combat.
i dont like crisscross, buttonhook better i think, because simplier, easier, and... better. :D
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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Jack » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:03 pm

With all this talk about pistol wagging, I'm not sure what we are talking about anymore? :oops:

I believe in slow searching for a lot of situations, but I was trained directly from Strategose International on how to do this in low light. The devil is in the detail, if you do it right he will not know where you are at and will swear you always have a light on him. If you do it right you will see him before he sees you. It is very unnerving to be on the business end of somebody doing a good slow search with flashlights. It is something I had to experience to believe. It is not what you think. We will often have several people try to give them selves up, when we haven't even started searching the room they are in, because they think we are standing right out side about ready to close in on them. In reality we may not have even gone down that hallway yet.

Sure the bad guy can get lucky and shot you, but when you go fast and get to close to him, he really doesn't have to get lucky at all. Just point and shoot.

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geryban
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Re: Two man team videos

Post by geryban » Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:36 pm

Good points. Agree: Best entry is when they come out... But what if not? In a normal house every range is close, sliceing or not (Like in the video). Point and shoot 2feet or 7 no different. In a real house, sliceing give to you 1-3 more feet. To me, no thanks. I think this technique in the video is old, calculable and slow. OK, maybe the bad guy will give up, accept. But if not, i wouldnt like to give him more time to: prepare and react, go back better position, behind cover, surprise me, or the others. In real slow sliceing is f.cked up by the real houses structure: other doors, corners, furnitures comes during the searching, and realise: Whit this moving, in this moment doing something very static, slow, undinamic and very-very vulnerable....


More about the video:
I dont like this tYpe of tac-light griping. Cant natural, too rigid. And If its not a fixed weapon light, stay far of the body. people like bugs: light is the first. :D
I dont do hand transition with pistol. with handguns NOBODY can shoot equally booth hands (especially with one hand). Its not give advantages like in the carbine, but its noisy, its time, and its unnesesary.
And finally, the wagging: "head or foot, head or foot???? I cant decide..."
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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Ryan » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:07 am

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Ryan » Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:07 pm

Jack wrote:Great info. I've seen it before, but still great info. The only thing I have never understood is wagging the pistol up and down while pieing the corner. For the life of me I do not understand why somebody would do that.
They move it from around high chest area down, correct?
Maybe for prone targets, booby-traps.

The pistol 'wagging', whilst slicing angling the muzzles up and down for all shapes of threats, I can see as being somewhat inaccurate but it's all direct around the main center mass of the target, with a good flashlight you can see the lower and upper visual field still and at certain points a better POV. I've seen better videos.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by badger » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:31 am

Or may be for dogs,for lying treats,wires etc.

Dramatikk

Re: Two man team videos

Post by Dramatikk » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:13 pm



What do you guys think?

Kind regards, Dramatikk. :)

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Ryan » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:03 am

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Dramatikk

Re: Two man team videos

Post by Dramatikk » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:56 pm





Any comments on either of these videos?

Kind regards, Dramatikk. :)

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Ryan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:59 am

Dramatikk, the second was great. I love that guys youtube channel and videos. Of course there is room for improvement, the instructors are TRAINING people. :) I think what they are teaching and how they are doing it is spot on from that regard. And the video a few posts up with the DJT technique, all good, for some. For me I don't think a linear, single stack contributes to speed either, that's just a solution for that BUT you can stack differently. 8) This means you don't really need this technique, it's all about angling your entry - as well it matters in which the speed you go from low/high-ready to on target, which is just as important and means upper body thought too such as range of movement, gradual lean and muzzle awareness!

I have seen Czech SOG videos where they lean whilst moving in to the room, on a slight angle on their path of travel and they get to the doorframe, lean inwards and hit the HC before exposing all their body WHILST still in a semi-jogging pace and come into the room. All within one second. This gives that extra moment of you being on target for anyone in that HC meaning you get an extra few rounds off. For lower body techniques it may mean very little for getting the gun working where you want, infact it just creates more time for you in the FF. The stack is more important. I also prefer a shoulder or grip transition to allow for left hand shooting, as you can see when he comes into the room the muzzle isn't fully into the HC and he'd have to adjust his BODY to get the muzzle on target - he'd be DEAD. You can also just simply go laterally into the room which would be easier - such as using the "same-side" technique. P.S. His buddy in the bump-fire position, had to giggle.



Ok, after some thought... the first video of the above post, "Slow and deliberate" which wasn't slow or deliberate, more spontaneous not planned and of low quality. On initial entry the second man is exposed - they use a crossover but it's slow, when crossing you should still angle around the first man to create those millisecond of opportunity, you don't have to run head-on like a tactical brick with no brains. You see because with crossover you are getting in each others lane of fire, well at least one person is, so the other person must angle around him or her or come in slightly offset.

They are jumpy and fidgety, I don't know if I'd like someone by my side like that. In a real situation they will be in fear, easily shocked and stumbled. I don't think it's safe for muzzle discipline from that perspective. On the other hand it does allow two men to cover a linear area and SOME but not all angles. Infact they are exposed, and side exposure is worse than frontal if you have a frontal plate. When they are back-to-back of course they can cover opposite doorways but a round can also pass through both so it's all down to individual skill and situation - there is no body cover in what they are doing because their bodies aren't going to defend anyone.

They don't really check and clear FULL rooms but only partially, there is no barricades to check. They engage whilst static like the enemies going to be like, "Hi guys, I'm here to stand here still and die". They should be moving, adjusting heights, angling the area, lessening their target and silhouette against the door. They angle themselves to engage without using the semi-effective cover of a doorjamb. Once the second guys shots ring out it's all "ACTIONS ON, DYNAMIC MODE" for no apparent reason when they've already bloody shot 5 seconds ago. Sure, it's good to be quick once the rounds go down to surprise anyone and check the HC's but it doesn't make sense to the previous engagements and why they'd base that engagement on them being compromised. Guy in the black T-shirt is also engaging whilst his mate is running, in a fashion to me that would get minimal good hits, faced towards the ground near an opponents legs. If the opponent just pie'd that linear area once they would both be DEAD.

Of course they need to check their rear, but in doing so he left his buddy wide open clearing the last room. LAST ROOMS are important because the enemy will be at that stage DEFENDED and PREPARED; If you haven't had contact you are getting closer to it, last room is a "Pull your head in" moment.. In my opinion black T-shirt guy would be taken out then the enemy would pie or simply go directly into the hallway and take out his buddy from behind. End of story -- both are dead. Training scars, training FAIL. No objective of training should be to train for unrealistic expectations.

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Ryan » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:54 am

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Ryan » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:11 am



Buddy and individual clears including back-to-back.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by Ryan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:18 am

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by whiskeyjackz » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:44 am

[youtube]http://youtu.be/-YOwl_n_h0w[/youtube]
Two guys I look up to forsure. JD and Tom SF and CAG respectively.

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Re: Two man team videos

Post by tacticalguy » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:42 pm

whiskeyjackz wrote:[youtube]http://youtu.be/-YOwl_n_h0w[/youtube]
Two guys I look up to forsure. JD and Tom SF and CAG respectively.
Good videos, thanks.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

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