C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Forum to discuss close quarter shooting.

Moderators: jimothy_183, Admin

Post Reply [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
User avatar
Ryan
Posts: 2796
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Contact:

C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by Ryan » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:51 pm

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Eiffel
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:53 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by Eiffel » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:47 am

I find it kind of funny that every example he's got of someone doing it wrong, they're a "competition shooter." I've never seen a decent competitor shoot with feet double shoulder width apart, or with super narrow foot placement, except when absolutely necessary. A good 3 gun or USPSA competitor is ready to absolutely book it from position to position so their foot placement is important.

As for dropping the head to the gun, I actually agree with him in terms of my personal preferences, but again I don't see the point. There are some shit hot shooters who drop the head to the gun, and some shit hot shooters who don't. Most people do a little of both, and you can actually see him do this himself. I've never seen it make an impact on one's ability to move or shoot accurately.

His comments about high ready are basically a good reminder of "you don't know what you don't know." Never mind that plenty of well trained and highly effective SOF guys are using high ready, and that it's taught in SFARTAETC. IMO you can see pretty clearly from his demonstration that he's never even tried it and has no real familiarity with it.

His complaint that competition shooters put the stock on the center of the chest is also cracking me up. I've literally never seen a decent 3gun shooter do this. Actually, the only people I see doing this are "tactical" guys who have armor that interferes with the shoulder pocket, so they just put the toe of the stock on their plate and shoot from there.

Seems to me he has a very limited picture of what high level shooters are actually doing, so he thinks the morons at his local range are all representative competitive shooters.

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by jimothy_183 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:53 pm

After researching this topic for a while I found it hard to watch the vid and the ignorance being displayed. Like eiffel says he doesn't really have a proper understanding of how or why things are being done the way they are being done. A bit more research on his part would come up with better points to make regardless of whether he ends up agreeing with the modern shooting stance.

To add, near the end when he shows his "preferred" stance he has the stock on his shoulder pocket so he has to tilt his head down the the side to see through the sights. Any instructor military, LE or competition worth their salt will tell you not to do that as it disturbs the way your eyes and being see things and process it and also makes it hard to move around in a dynamic situation like that.

As for what eiffel said about placing the stock on the chest I think there is more to it than that. I place my stock on the chest to without armour on. I have seen guys with armour put the stock in the shoulder pocket rather than on the chest and I have seen the opposite as well. What I am saying is that you can do it in any combination of the two (armour/no armour and chest/shoulder) and still be effective, which combos work the best is another debate.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

Eiffel
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:53 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by Eiffel » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:13 am

In my opinion lowering and tilting the head to pick up the sights is suboptimal. However there are some absolutely blazing competitors who do this to some degree. IIRC Daniel Horner is one example.

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by jimothy_183 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:41 am

Everyone has to tilt their head to some degree in order to pick up the sights, those that run a shoulder pocket mount will have to do so more than those who mount the stock on their chest, it's just the nature of things.

Horner seems to tilt his head at a normal angle, nothing seems out of the ordinary to me.

Image

Image

Here he runs a shoulder pocket mount so he has to tilt his head a bit more
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

Eiffel
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:53 am
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by Eiffel » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:46 pm

Right, I just mean that if you have seen the old AMU shooting videos (for DMR work) they want students to drop their heads straight down onto the stock, with no head tilt at all. This works great at range but results in a poor stock placement for fast shooting. I don't think a little tilt is so bad.

User avatar
tacticalguy
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by tacticalguy » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:55 pm

Well, right off the bat, it's pretty obvious that he doesn't seem to care for "competition" shooters that much. Second, where does he go to watch these "competition" shooters? I know it's not any of the shooters from the U.S. Army Rifle Team, because I've witnessed their shooting and they don't use really narrow or ultra wide stances like he's suggesting competition shooters use. Third, he really needs to think through his "lesson" and maybe set up cue cards just behind his camera. He seemed somewhat tangential at times and searching for his next sentence. "Uh" is not a confidence builder. It almost seems like he's speaking off the cuff on his varied topics.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

Breacher01
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:42 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: C-Clamp/Thumb over Bore and CQB

Post by Breacher01 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:03 pm

I like a vertical foregrip on most my long guns(Diemaco c8, HK mp5, HK 416)combined with an aimpoint or eotech in the right spot my grip and stance automatically improve with the right attachments and optics. but im in no way a competitive shooter.

Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “CQB Shooting”