Shoot / No Shoot

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jimothy_183
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Shoot / No Shoot

Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:05 pm

Quick definition for those who don't know:

Shoot / No Shoot refers to the decision making process an operator will use to decide on the use or non use of lethal force in a given situation.






I want to know what people think of a couple of scenarios that are in other youtube videos.


@ 2:35


@ 2:35 as well


What would you have done in the situation as the challenger.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

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Ryan
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Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by Ryan » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:06 pm

I remember seeing the AFP doco. I would say not to shoot, I'm sure they had strict ROE and mindset. Even if the ROE was broken by what he did I think those officers had enough backing there to try resolve it peacefully (to the point of no one harmed) than go off an assumption. Then again even if they shot the guy that assumption would be wrong legally but fair game in someone elses perspective.


What about that one? ;)
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Dramatikk

Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by Dramatikk » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:46 pm

OT-Warning:

Necessary action (Prevent wrongful act) + Proportional action (Don't bring a gun to a knife fight) + Time of action (Act immediately, don't wait a week to prepare a proper payback) = Legal self defence!

Kind regards, Dramatikk. :)

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Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by tacticalguy » Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:37 am

I can't stress enough how important these drills are. Shoot/no shoot drills should be done on a closed course where the shooter can be "stressed" and monitored by the range master.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by badger » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:51 am

For LE members are shoot/no shoot drills elementary and life important.

Its very important to use realistic targets, with real looking items in the hands, force on force scenarios as well. Very important is instructor's ability to induce stress factor to simulate real world siuations.

The most difficult thing in LE life is decision when and if I can shoot on the threat. For that reason LE members have to have very high level of distinctive capabilities, mainly under extremly high stress factor.

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Ryan
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Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by Ryan » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:26 am

What if someone shoots a no shoot, then what happens?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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jimothy_183
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Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by jimothy_183 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:33 am

I'm no expert here but it varies a little bit depending on who you are (military, LE or civ). But generally speaking you would be in some sort of legal trouble.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

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Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by tacticalguy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:29 pm

jimothy_183 wrote:I'm no expert here but it varies a little bit depending on who you are (military, LE or civ). But generally speaking you would be in some sort of legal trouble.
ALL kinds of that trouble, sir!
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

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Re: Shoot / No Shoot

Post by Ryan » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:27 am

What happens in-mission? Is it a case of move on, get a medic onto them and deal with it later?

The reason why I ask it I was thinking about all these things we talk of, as if they're never going to happen when they might and it's just circumstance at times, luck more than training. Just like when shooters on a linear range shoulder-check and check behind them, but there is hardly any videos or drills out there that include them actually seeing something and turning around to engage it, another example of something included that shapes your mind to something utterly useless unless you train on it and prepare for both pillars, both sides of the spectrum.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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