Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

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jcheng14
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Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by jcheng14 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:53 am

Current events as of 8/23/10 have the manila hostage things all over. Philippino SWAT raided the bus where a single ex-cop held 14 hostages to demand his reinstatement.

video of the raid was here:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... stage&aq=f

Obviously, they did not do well as over half of the hostages(8) died.

While looking for methods of entry into a bus, I came across this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjUABwZ3sKA

While I had not thought of the ramps, wouldn't entering from two points in the windows be dangerous? If your members had to shoot, wouldn't it be likely that they might hit one of the entry members from the other point?


How would you best enter and control a bus. Assume that snipers will not work because of curtains on the windows.

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Post by konte » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:36 pm

Here a method with only one entry point!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIdQ_Q1x7f4

(start to look at 4:00)

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Post by Admin » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:08 pm

I was wondering when someone posted a topic about that disaster.
Well if I was assaulting a bus, I would take it from the side with multiple pick up trucks with operators on the back. 2 to every window if possible one to attack the window and one to engage.
At the same time or seconds later you could enter the front with 4 operators to secure down the seats on the left and right of the rowe and 2 to advance down engage any gunman in hiding.

If you are extremely aggressive you could flood the bus with operators form every possible entry way, like hostage rescue on plains but there is no control and is very dangerous for everyone.

It is all about timing and diversion.
I have even heard about some units that hit the bus with an armored car just before assaulting to nock any gunman off his feet.
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Post by Jack » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:13 am

I think that great tactics and good training increases your chances of success. However a lot of successful operation are not successful based on the good guys actions, but rather the bad guys incompetence or his lack of willingness to go all the way.

This guy went all the way.

I don't know the details of this op, but I know that mistakes take place in almost every operation. We are luck that more bad guys don't or aren't capable of capitalizing on them.

The fact is when he is holding the gun and the hostages he is really holding all of the cards.

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Re: Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by Dramatikk » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:11 pm

What type of breaching method would have been the best to utilize on this rescue operation? From what was shown in the videos, the windows on the bus seemed like some hard obstacles to overcome. Their sledge hammers only punched small holes on the windows.

About hitting the bus with a armoured vehicle, I believe the spetznas was the first ones to use that strategy.

RE-EDIT:





This explosive breach must be the best one ever seen public :mrgreen:
Last edited by Dramatikk on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by Jack » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:23 am

Interesting video, I wasn't up on that Hostage situation.

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Re: Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by Jack » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:24 am

I would say there is no real excuse for missing the Sniper shot, assuming it really presented itself. Usually this is a fault of the boss not the operator. We don't have that problem, our snipers have taken out a number of suspects in the last few years.

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Re: Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by Dramatikk » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:31 pm

After recheiving tactical instruction form China short time after the hostage crisis, the Manila swat team decides to show of their new skills public:



What do you think of their new take on the scenario?


TVB discovers Manila swat team based in an backalley:



Sad stuff. One Ex. Special forces operator said in an interview that most of the dedicated milsim airsoft teams are better trained than these guys... :|
Last edited by Dramatikk on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by Ryan » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:27 am

Jack wrote:I would say there is no real excuse for missing the Sniper shot, assuming it really presented itself. Usually this is a fault of the boss not the operator. We don't have that problem, our snipers have taken out a number of suspects in the last few years.
Some people just fold on the day, you're right, there is no excuse. If you want to join a professional unit, you must do the things you learn in the most stressful situation and still perform it perfectly.

After all the training a sniper team has, they should not miss. It is an easy skill to lose over a short time period though. But you just cannot predict what will happen with terminal ballistics and windsheilds (vehicle glass) but they should of tested all their rounds on it and studied it. Good thing they now have special rounds for defeating glass.
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Re: Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by tacticalguy » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:18 am

The hostage rescue operation that the special action team initiated was like watching the tiny car at the circus roll up and fifteen clowns tumble out. I was not impressed. :oops: Where were the gas grenades? The flashbangs? And it took the Chinese to make the Filipinos aware of how to run a HR operation?? It all went down hill there when Subic Bay closed.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: Manila Bus Hostage Rescue

Post by Ryan » Sat May 26, 2012 4:02 am

Random question, some what related:

What makes GOOD teams do BAD? Is it the pre-real-event jutters? The lack of motivation? The good quality training turned mixed quality real-life event.
What makes WELL skilled people do BAD? For instance, boxers who are the 'best' getting knocked out by the least likely competitor.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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