El Chapo Capture

Moderator: jimothy_183

Post Reply
User avatar
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am

El Chapo Capture

Post by Ryan » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:48 am

Comments from Trevor:


If you have been to one of my classes or if you have seen my CQB presentation, you won't find any of this in the list bit unexpected.


Right from the start you hear the leader yelling for them to go and they take off in typical dynamic entry style.
Shots fired. Immediate entry out the fucking window. One operator wounded and down luckily outside the door. Behavioral systems override and they go defensive clearing out of the danger zone and begin fighting from the breach point and window. At the window, one guy is very close with his muzzle right in the window. One guy is off his cover and shooting dangerously over his wounded fellow operator. Staying off your cover will make it harder to get multiple guns in a fight and guys can’t maneuver as safely.

Because everyone is out of the room, they can now escalate the situation and they choose to throw grenades. Good choice if your R.O.E. allows it. This is only possible because the wounded man was outside of the room and because no one else was in the room.

Trying to get in that door immediately would have done nothing for them but contribute to more possible casualties and eliminate safer options. Trying to run in through the door was in no way a safer option than fighting from the edge of the door and possibly the windows to begin with. As far as I can tell, no one else gets wounded after they switch to limited penetration.

At one point one operator moves past the door quickly to the other side. Notice it was NOT a slow move only as fast as you can shoot with precision speed. The operator in the red jacket carefully searches around his side of the door, then he too eventually moves across quickly firing some shots. He again puts his muzzle into the breach and no one sneaks up on him and grabs it. He clears deep into the hard corner from outside. Then and only then do they move in despite calls to be quicker and get in.
There is a lot of shuffle stepping as guys “pie-off” various corners and opening. No one moves through shooting on the move looking like they do on the range or a Hollywood movie. Not one guy. Guys hug the corners. Not one really stands off of cover.

After they move in, two guys draw the short straws and have to move down a narrow hallway and are actually physically pushed by their leader. They inch down the hall. Someone throws a grenade near a stairwell going up. More calls to get going as they pie-off the stairs working very tight to the corners and jumping back when shots ring out. That is called common sense fear.

At 6:35 there is a quick clip of a guy pie-ing off the room then rapidly bounding in facing the remaining corner. HE DID NOT MOVE DIRECTLY INTO THE UNKNOWN/UNSEEN AREA. It offers nothing. Its dumb and good way to get you killed, take your teammates out of the fight, and make sure the enemy gets to fight you one on one at the exact angle he expects. It provides no defensive or offensive advantage against a true opponent and draws fire to your buddies coming into the breach point, often with their flank exposed.

All the “arribas!” in the world weren’t getting guys up the stairwell without some more motivation and protection. They get a bunker then carefully make their way up the stairwell pie-ing off the corners close to cover and firing shots. Positions are taken at the next set of corners and doorway. They stay close to the corners and observe and process and area before moving forward. They continue to clear from the doorways before making entry. No one I can see MOVES INTO THE UNKNOWN/UNSEEN AREA OF THE ROOM.

Some more guys draw the short straw and have to move down a narrow hallway. THEY PIE IT OFF FROM THE CORNER. THEY DON’T RUN AROUND THE CORNER TRYING TO LOOK COOL.

At the end of the hallway they repeat pie-ing off doors and corners and move into the known area. No one advances into an unknown area.

This is how real world CQB looks. Behavior kicks in and your focus is on trying not to get shot. You do a hit and the bad guys gets away. Guess what? You get to try another day. You go in and get killed; you don’t get a do-over. Of course there are exceptions to dynamic entry failing on first contact, but it typically is nothing like a dynamic hit on a shoot house once a defender is met in the real world. If you can do a form of limited penetration very quickly, at the the same or nearly same speed, then why try to go dynamic immediate entry in the first place? I know it works if you have surprise, but so would running in with a baseball bat.

Main take aways about what is behaviorally compliant during CQB:
1. Segmented search from the door
2. Staying close to cover
3. It’s okay to dip your barrel in for the right reasons (just the tip)
4. Moving into the known area, “bounding” laterally
5. Bursting past a door to get to the other side quickly

Main take aways about what is not behaviorally compliant:
1. Running into a room without some type of limited penetration/ threshold assessment
2. Flowing and moving around with your weapon like you are moving and shooting at the range trying for a great shot group
3. Moving into the unknown area of a room first
4. Staying off of cover
5. Pi-ing off a door slowly and smoothly

Hats off to these brave men. I would definitely like to help them with some of their training. They were brave men willing to kill or capture the narco-terrorist that fucking commie, lib-tard, actor Sean Penn wanted to have a cup of tea with.

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:48 pm
Location: Florida

Re: El Chapo Capture

Post by tacticalguy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:22 pm

Trevor was right on about a lot of the issues that I also saw in here. Cheers to Trevor!
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

User avatar
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am

Re: El Chapo Capture

Post by Ryan » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:18 am


From a Mexican Marine manual. Well look here! A pie-come-limited entry.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

User avatar
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 6:24 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: El Chapo Capture

Post by DareTactical » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:49 am

Great find Rye. I've also managed to track down this field manual. It also shows the depiction of what i've been calling the '45-90-180' limited entry method for room entry in pairs, which is what I was shown by UKSF and also is the same as the method Max Velocity had developed (independently) and put on his post a year ago.

To have three different sources come up with the same solution independently of one another suggests it is probably a solution worth considering.

I have uploaded my post on a new thread here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2696.
"train hard, fight easy"

Posts: 1
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 11:23 am

Re: El Chapo Capture

Post by Etchinson » Sun May 21, 2017 8:38 am

taecticalguy wrote:Trevor was right on about a lot of sizegenetics reviews the issues that I also saw in here. Cheers to Trevor!
Awesome find Ryan that was some intense footage. Great stuff.
Last edited by Etchinson on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:42 pm

Re: El Chapo Capture

Post by Breacher01 » Sat May 27, 2017 9:48 pm

I believe i have told you this before Ryan, but if you do this for a living you try to stick to a plan, but sometimes your opponent isn't with you at the briefing, and they are unaware of your detailed plan. Sometimes they even try to spoil it on purpose. When the plan goes out the window everyone falls back into some survival mode based on intentions, experience and training.

In this case Mr. Guzman might have hired better bodyguards then the unit eventually capturing him. Very likely some shared at least the same basic training.

CQB on a whiteboard is a whole other game then actual shootouts. If you ever stood that close to a door of window of a room thats being shot in, and hit wth a nine banger and possibly multiple concussion grenades you would understand the guy in the red shirt has balls of steel. I have. He stands with only the piece of wall between the doorframe and the window to shield him from fragments, bullets, dust and concussion. If you haven't built that internal wall yourself you have some serious cojones in my mind.

As the videoclip progresses you see that what may have started out as a well planned entry ends up being a fight between men with serious experience and training. Maybe next time they should involve the opposition in the pre-mission briefing, and they will at least try to comply.

Post Reply

Return to “CQB General Discussions ”