Page 1 of 1

French Supermarket Raid: Friendly-fire incident?

Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 7:02 am
by DareTactical
I believe I have spotted a friendly-fire incident that everyone else has missed, which occurred during the raid on the Kosher Supermarket by French police team RAID, during the Paris Hostage Crisis. Please read my analysis first, watch and analyse the video that i've linked below, then tell me what you think.

Here is my analysis:
@0:42 Friendly fire incident between the front black car and the silver car behind it.
- After the suspect is killed in a hail of gunfire by the officers, you can hear a single gunshot resonate a significant several seconds after. If you look closely again, you see that one of officers fires his weapon and another officer immediately goes down (there was no reason to fire his weapon as the suspect was killed instantly by the hail of bullets). The officer next to him (presumably the one who misfired his weapon) reacts instantaneously after realising what he has done, and signals to the medevac team (who are standing by off-camera) who then appear on-camera from the right of the screen. Luckily the officer was not wounded fatally. The French govt seemed to have stayed tight lipped about this friendly fire incident and seem to have allowed the public to assume that both the officers who were reported to have been wounded, were wounded by the suspect.

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVS-a89laMc

Re: French Supermarket Raid: Friendly-fire incident?

Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:20 pm
by Ryan
Wow. Good spot! I had never noticed that before.

Re: French Supermarket Raid: Friendly-fire incident?

Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:18 am
by Ryan

2:17. Some more footage, different angle(s). You're right. Ricochet? Fragmentation?

Re: French Supermarket Raid: Friendly-fire incident?

Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 4:29 pm
by DareTactical
Hi Ryan,

I've seen all this and have analysed it as much as I am able to. Channel 2 and Channel 3 both aired the front angle footage of the contact, however channel 2 cut and censored the scenes of the suspect being shot and killed, whilst channel 3 aired it uncensored. Channel 3 however cuts the footage just as you hear the lone gunshot (that i mentioned previously):

Listen at 0:49 very carefully, and then watch as the news channel cuts from one shot to another (a significant few seconds later)


It is my belief that they must have caught the friendly fire incident on camera or at least the immediate aftermath. Knowing full well what they had witnessed, they decided not to air that part of the footage. There is little reason why else they would cut the footage at that point as they basically showed a man being peppered with bullet holes already, and its not as though they were short on air time that night.

Please analyse for yourself and lemme know what you think.

Re: French Supermarket Raid: Friendly-fire incident?

Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 7:52 am
by Ryan
I believe that could be the case, if so it's a big deal. Judging by the footage alone, the team didn't seem to be that familiar with shooting from the door, there were many mistakes and potentials for mistakes. I've always said time and time again that a split stack and entries like the crisscross have issues because people can run up through the middle and they tend to do that when they panic or when you put a grenade in there (even an NFDD).

I talked with a friend who says he uses four main safety aspects when it comes to limited penetration techniques, shooting from the door or "through-door shooting" with guys either side of it:

Image

"Friendly Fire/Earning The Shot Rules: "Muzzle before Meat," and "On-line Rule."

Try to get your barrel in front of any body parts of the person next to you when in close contact with each other. In this picture, I am about to eat the muzzle blast of a short barrel unsuppressed 7.62 SCAR while trying to engage the enemy. Even with full ear pro it keeps me from doing my job for a moment after it blasts my face. I then push my teammate forward one step. The mini gun (muzzle in front of me) does not cause me any problems during the engagement."

Image

"The High Threat System is one of the few that teaches friendly fire avoidance and earning the shot in CQB in a very methodical manner, right up front. Weapons flow first so you don't shoot yourself or wingman; friendly fire avoidance and earning the shot second so you don't shoot your other teammates. The general rules of gun safety arrant adequate to cover these events.

1. On Line Rule
2. 45 Degree Rule
3. 2 meter rule
4. Body Contact Rule

2 meter zone and 90 degree cone shown below. Come train with us if you want more info."

Most of the entry team were on-line, except for a few covermen behind the cars in front of the entrypoint. The coverman is the one who engaged, from my point of view, and caused blue-on-blue. So, this was neglected. That said, covermen should still be employed in that capacity to get other angles on threat, I think the way the shieldman walked into the middle of the doorway didn't help, either. Most guns weren't in front of each other even though they were directed on a threat, this is an issue commonly when facing a front-on threat in a stack which isn't offset or allow for easy access to guns upfront. So, the 45 degree rule was neglected because when people did go to shoot they tried to shoot around each other, not step off and engage from a flank or from the sides with the pointman knowing. 2 meter zone wasn't really applicable in such a tight situation but could've been if the entry team made a few changes. Body contact was kinda there but not often, and not in the way teams who train around limited penetration techniques normally operate.

Compare to how the Russians here do it with shield and all:

They follow most of these rules and put them in place in a good way. Limited penetration techniques with through-door shooting. If you have such a big split stack with covermen and a sniper team, like the French did. Then you need more rules set up on who engages first. ROE/OFOF. They had a hostage extraction team, interrogator/detective team, entry team, reserves/trailers for entry team and covermen in a small area. When they all panic, things go crazy with this many people.

Re: French Supermarket Raid: Friendly-fire incident?

Posted: Sun May 24, 2015 12:59 pm
by DareTactical
This is good stuff. Good instructors will always teach this to a team they are training. I guess it is easy to forget about or set aside when you are too focused on getting the entry and cornering techniques right.

Re: French Supermarket Raid: Friendly-fire incident?

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:57 am
by Ryan
The main aspect should be getting your approach right and then cornering comes second. Mutual support is the thing. Who cares if you're trying to pie-off an area when your partner has already crossed and is in engagement. Quickly poke out and engage. Do so safely, limiting exposure and all those principles but it comes before mutually supporting your partner.