Flashbang Placement

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Ryan
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Flashbang Placement

Post by Ryan » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:48 am

Where are good places to throw or place the flashbang within the room? Do you have any SOP's, IOP's for this?

How do you communicate the adjustment of a flashbang? I.e. do you say "deep"? Or anything like that?

What types of flashbang placement TTP's are there?

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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by jimothy_183 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:36 am

As an SOP it's normally placed about 1 or 2 metres straight through the doorway. The reason for this is because you want to get the greatest effect on contacts that are closest to the door which are usually considered to be greater threats. Of course you can introduce some variations if you know the situation inside like a peculiar room layout or BG positions.

TTPs can include things as simple as always having a pointman to provide security for the man handling the flashbang, and if possible a rear guard to do the same. But basically the operators need to think about security and exposure of the man handling the flashbang.
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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by tacticalguy » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:18 am

Jimothy is correct, 1-2 meters into the room is usually the standard to ensure the best dispersal. I'm rather fond of breeching the door with a charge first and before the sound has died down, bouncing the flashbang off the back wall. The breeching charge will get everyone's attention and make some people stand up, the flashbang will lay them down. The breeching charge will also make people pop their heads around corners to find out what's going on. The flashbang will help to disorient them. It will also send people in the rear of the structure scurrying out into the welcoming arms of your perimeter team.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by Ryan » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:05 am

That's a good combination tacticalguy because the flashman has to co-ordinate with the breacher. Yeah Jimothy, definitely adjusting for BG position, that's what I was saying by the communications during that time period -- what we say is "Deep", "Middle" or "Shallow" then a direction left or right, basically to place it closer or further away from the door and within a certain area; especially if you've detected the enemy or had a compromised breach and you can't go in dynamically. Sometimes we say it's the left or right HC or EC, if there's multiple we call it and place it in the middle. If it's a short room, we do it closer to the doorway. If there's obstacles we tend to put them over them, deep into the room depending on BG position.

If you open the door and the BG is facing, could you pop it in the middle of the doorframe to put them off looking there or flash them if they are looking there? How would you throw it in? I've seen some stupid teams (especially airsoft) expose themselves whilst throwing, most teams do it from the doorframe and bounce/deflect it inside or pop their hand around the door without exposing their body.

And do you prefer a single flash or multiple like an 8-12 banger? Do you mix it with any other assets or grenades? We've already discussed the M203 useage in another thread so I won't ask that question!

I've seen British SAS videos where they have done similar, and even throwing it against the back wall like you say tacticalguy, but they run in as it is being thrown in there. I've seen Australian TAG videos where they use a flashbang pouch on the pointmans back (scapula area) to throw it in whilst running so it goes off as they enter.

Last question, where would CS gas be popped to allow for the best spread? Air conditioning units exterior, away from them interior? Closest to the BG?
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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by tacticalguy » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:01 am

I've seen the multiple flash used to great effect in some southern latitudes. As far as what the Brit or Aussie SAS guys do, they're WAY crazy. I did one Long Drag with some boys from 22nd. Hard core. As far as the CS goes, I want that thickest right at the feet of the tango. I want to choke him out, immediately. If there are multiple subjects or multiple entry points, BIG spread of CS canisters.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by Ryan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:03 pm

Nice. Grenade launcher comes mind then. Smoke 'em out. Hey, WW2 style, burn 'em out!


He dictates 1 meter in the room. Sometimes I like it closer to the door, where the suspect is looking. The team uses the IOP for this, for us, is a 'floor' or 'door bang' for this method, sometimes chucking one in deep and the second in between the door for a good distraction. Sometimes of course a good distraction means creating noise somewhere and coming from the other direction, hence distraction explosives and devices placed outside windows, other sides of the target room and so forth, I've even heard of psyops using speakers to not only call out people but mimic footsteps, gunfire, anything to scare or distract the enemy.

What about throwing grenades in awkward places such as up ladders, into attics and so forth? I've seen people say crouch and get really close to an opening to slip it in, quite a risk I suppose. I'm currently finishing off this book and a Commando slipped one in an MG nest, his fellows recounting how brave he was to do so!


Masking the entry with a multi-bang.
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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by seal236 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:17 pm

Flashbangs have their place:

There are two types of uses

Defensive - 1 meter in side the room in the doorway. Used to mask entry and protect the team

Offensive - Tossing flashbangs into areas that that a suspect may be. ie Into a shed, back behind a couch etc.

Flashbangs take a lot of time to deploy and ones gun is down while doing it. You have to consider what is more important and the number of personnel you have. 2 guys at a doorway can deploy a crash in about 5 secs. (from pouch to bang). You could probably clear that room faster than that.

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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by Ryan » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:03 am


7:35. How far can you run before it goes off, plus if a suspect is aware of one coming they will jump at the slightest sound.
Sometimes that's why multiple are better, both "defensive" and "offensive".

And it depends on where the pouch is and how you want to operate it, some upper back pouches allow you to tear away, "grab and go", the flashbang and deploy it in a shorter time period. Sometimes they may already have a FB ready for the breach, which is even better. But in dynamic entries it can take 5 seconds plus, agreed, and it's all about weighing it up. If you want to stay quiet until the last minute then it becomes even more apparent. A tear-away pouch is better, especially with the flashbangs pin attached to the under-garment. So as soon as you pull it, pin is out and it's ready to go, throw!

And placement in tubular assaults, etc, in the aisles mainly. It changes with terrain dynamics.

"SAS teams toss flashbangs into the air for mid-air detonation and they are already in the room when it goes off sometimes....they are conditioned to ignore the flashbang and trained to avoid the flash effect even on multi-burst flashbangs. Earplugs now allow soft tones to penetrate like in whisper comm but restrict loud tones...like flashbang detonation. Use in close proximity to the team would certainly be accepted."
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

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"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by Ryan » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:43 am

Flashbangs 'activate' most of the photoreceptors of the eye creating 'white out', temporarily blindness or fading. How long does this last for? 5-10 seconds? What range are they limited to? 15m? Obviously it depends on factors such as proximity of the device detonation to suspect, which way the suspect was facing, so on.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

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"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by badger » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:03 pm

blindness from flasbang for 5-10 seconds is very academic issue. don't count of blindness of suspect, there are too many factors in the structure that can make your FB not flash effective....furniture, corners, curtains etc....of course ...it works during training, but is important to train in realistic environment and know limitation of our devices.

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Re: Flashbang Placement

Post by seal236 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:08 pm

Most units improperly utilize bangs. The bang should be put into the room and the team should chase. Not throw, boom, enter. Take a look at SAS they developed the TTPs for flash bangs, most units in the US have replaced this with waiting for the bang to go off for safety reasons. Multi bangs are superior these days to single bang.

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