Reloading

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Ryan
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Reloading

Post by Ryan » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:39 am

When to reload? Before entry, after clearing a room, during the clearance, transition over reload?

Some people say tacreload before every entry, but that's unlikely with connecting rooms or when you've only let out 1/10th of your magazine.

What would be the most suitable time in either 1) a prolonged operation, or 2) a large building clearance. Both of which suggest you WILL have to reload at some point in time, the question is when.


When to tacreload over speed reload? Dump your mags, retain or just let them fall on the floor?

Another thing to add is most LE firefights are quick and do not need a reload, so this may be a shitfight involving multiple suspects or aimed towards the military in a scuffle.

Remember to use STOPPAGE or BLACK when you're down on ammunition.
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Re: Reloading

Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:00 am

This is from another forum.
*** wrote: TACTICAL RELOAD

The procedure for tactical reloading will be made clear in this section. The main points addressed will be the following:

A - How does the operator identify he needs to reload?
B – How often should an operator reload?
C - The mechanics of the reload drill
D – The comms of the reload drill


Reloading is not an exact science, it is another risk versus reward situation where the main participants are speed versus safety. The individual operator must make the decisions where, when and how they are going to reload their weapon. Below are guidelines to help the operator make the best decision possible considering his environment.

A - How does the operator identify he needs to reload?

The operator will verbally inform the entire team he is in need of a reload, He will call his stack number and then “STOPPAGE” to indicate he wants to check his weapon. For example if the Point man wishes to reload he will call:
#1: 1 STOPPAGE
B – How often should an operator reload?

An operator should not wait until his weapon is dry before reloading as he is risking there being no ammunition in the guns chamber. Equally if he were to reload after each engagement it would significantly slow the teams movement pace. So a medium is obviously required.

The operator is expected to keep a mental record of his bullet count. An exact count is desirable, but not expected – a rough estimate is sufficient. All things being equal the standard practice is to consider reloading after using 50% of your magazines capacity.

The advantage of this the decision to reload is based upon the ammunition count.
The disadvantage is that the operator requires to be capable of keeping a reasonably accurate track of his bullet count.

Alternatively it is also reasonable for an operator to consider checking their weapon after a preset number of rooms, for example 3.

The advantage of this is that the operator isn't preoccupied with keeping a bullet count but rather will think about checking their weapon after every 3rd room

The disadvantage is that this method doesn't really factor in the actual environment and so it may be the case where waiting 3 rooms to reload is not desirable.

In addition to this the Team leader may order the team to check their weapons:
#3: CHECK
#1: 1 UP
#2: 2 UP
#4: 4 STOPPAGE
#3: 3 COVERING
#4: 4 UP
C - The mechanics of the reload drill

The operator who wishes to reload will request to reload
The 2 men closest to him will respond indicating if it is safe to reload.
The operator will reload and inform the team he is ready to move

If point man wishes to reload then we have a speed versus safety issue. If the point man goes down on one knee, Coverman will remain behind him, covering over him. (Faster/Riskier) If the point man calls for a reload while standing Coverman will move in front of the point man to effectively cover him as he reloads. (Slower/Safer).

D – The comms of the reload drill

CHECK – Check your weapon.
STOPPAGE – I have a problem with my weapon.
UP – Problem solved.
COVERING – Im covering you.

SPEED RELOAD

Sometimes it is necessary to reload quickly, for example if the operator is in a firefight. In this case the focus is purely on speed and as such the operator will simply call that he is reloading and then call out when his weapon is up.
#1: STOPPAGE
#1: UP
DRY RELOAD

The process of reloading an empty magazine, not acceptable in CQB


SOURCES:

1. High Risk Entry - Chuck Habernehl

2. The History of Center Axis Relock - Paul Castle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTWCq4b6VI8

3. Ten tips and tactics to toughen your training - Gerald W. Garner
http://www.policemag.com/survivalguide.pdf

4. Basic Rifleman - dslyecxi
http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/basic_rifleman.html
jimothy_183 wrote: My personal take is to have definitions for 4 types of combat reloads:
  • Tactical reload: retain partially loaded magazine
  • Speed reload: quick change of magazine, discard the magazine that fell out
  • Emergency reload: chamber empty, drop and discard magazine, insert fresh magazine
  • Dry reload: chamber empty, change magazine, retain empty magazine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5i5NPsG_3M



Source
Tactical Reload: The purpose is to prevent shooting dry. Let's say youre in a shoot house and you encounter three targets and put three rounds in each one. If you have a 12+1 round mag that would leave you with 4 rounds. You would grab a fresh mag off the belt, and with the same hand, eject the current mag and replace with a fresh mag - seat the new mag and stow the old, then continue through the house.

Emergency Reload: You shot dry, and need a fresh mag ASAP. Using the same situation above, you then encounter another threat and immediately dump your last four rounds into the target. You've now shot dry, so you dump the mag while reaching back for a fresh mag, preferably behind cover.
seems like there are some confusions when it comes to terminology among different schools.

As far as I am concerened
Tactical reload : retain partially loaded magazine
Speed reload : quick change of magazine, except I don't retain the magazine that fell out
Emergency reload : slide is locked to the rear, drop the magazine, insert a fresh one.

Personally, I prefer to just condense it to Tactical reload and Emergency reload.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKNSH9tuxY8
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

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Re: Reloading

Post by Ryan » Sat May 26, 2012 11:09 am

Question: You're doing a tactical reload. You have to put the retained magazines back in your belt-order, this is secondary priority to getting the rounds out at your target, correct? So if someone worried about putting their magazines back before engaging, potentially with that retained magazine in their hand then it would be a con, true? Because they can still grip the weapon and shoot, then you have a retained magazine during firefight or post to add to the belt-order or webbing. Is dropping the magazine applicable during that situation? In a prolonged firefight you can pick it up later, if there is a later, if you are worried about your 'grip' or 'control' of the weapon. We're talking smaller magazines: Pistol cartridge, 9mm.

What is the difference between emergency reload compared to the others too?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

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"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Reloading

Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:48 pm

Ryan wrote: Question: You're doing a tactical reload. You have to put the retained magazines back in your belt-order, this is secondary priority to getting the rounds out at your target, correct? So if someone worried about putting their magazines back before engaging, potentially with that retained magazine in their hand then it would be a con, true? Because they can still grip the weapon and shoot, then you have a retained magazine during firefight or post to add to the belt-order or webbing. Is dropping the magazine applicable during that situation? In a prolonged firefight you can pick it up later, if there is a later, if you are worried about your 'grip' or 'control' of the weapon. We're talking smaller magazines: Pistol cartridge, 9mm.
I don't fully understand the question. But I will repeat the first quote in that it is not an exact science and it's really up to the operator to judge what they do and when. As for dropping magazines it really depends, think about the long term effects as well as the short term. Are you deep behind enemy lines where there is no resupply? You might want to retain ammo where you can. Are you on the defence where there is a lot of ammo nearby? Worry less about ammo retention and focus on getting your weapon into action as much as possible.
Ryan wrote: What is the difference between emergency reload compared to the others too?
I guess it depends on the urgency of the situation. Tactical and dry being when it's not as urgent and speed and emergency when it is urgent.

Examples

Tactical: Not currently engaging enemy, want to top off weapon.
Dry: Suppressing enemy with a platoon sized unit. Not quite urgent because of the amount of fire power being put down by friendlies.
Speed: Currently engaging, you know weapon is low on ammo and there is a short lull in combat. Want to top off weapon before the fight picks up again.
Emergency: Currently engaging and weapon has gone dry.



Now for a quesiton of my own.

Muzzle up, down or stright ahead when reloading?







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Ryan
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Re: Reloading

Post by Ryan » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:32 am

jimothy_183 wrote:I don't fully understand the question.
Linear range. Starts to reload (say for instance when the threat was in cover). Threat still active.

You have a retained magazine in your hand. Is the priority to put the retained magazine in belt/webbing OR engage the threat/find a way to engage the threat? If so any tips of shooting even with that retained magazine in your hand as you grip the weapon? These reload habits are very important in training. Some say there are no reload drills but there are certainly things to iron out.

Was the action he conducted, reloading while threat in cover right or wrong? Can it be done?

Anyways you talked about resup. How does operational requirements affect your equipment and loadout selection. E.g: when will it be used; for how long will it be used; in what climate will I use this; how much do I need to carry and what are my options for re-supply etc. How do these affect what you choose to take?

I suppose all factors play in and contribute to the final decision; the mission drives the gear train as they say.



http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/magazines/ - Some good tips!
"A tactical reload (Reloading even if you aren't out of ammo) is always performed before entering a new room."



What are your guys tips on repacking magazines? I.e. in a long firefight, you're hulled down and able to repack during a lull time, partials to fulls. Any other tips i.e. how belt order should be? Adjusting it for current threat?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

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"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
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Re: Reloading

Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:09 pm

For weapons with a bolt lock feature do you personally find it easy to differentiate between the weapon running out of ammo and a malfunction, even under combat stress?

In the two opposing views below Tireiron says you can do it easily while Haley is of the opinion that it is hard under stress.

@ 12:25


@ 3:16


Thoughts?
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Re: Reloading

Post by Ryan » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:57 am

CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Reloading

Post by jimothy_183 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:09 pm

On weapons with bolt/slide lock (e.g: AR15 type rifles) is it really possible to be able to train to tell when the last shot has been fired and you need to reload in the middle of a fight? Even with all the stress and adrenaline?

@ 12:18


@ 0:25


@ 3:14
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Re: Reloading

Post by tacticalguy » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:50 pm

Ryan wrote:
jimothy_183 wrote:I don't fully understand the question.
Linear range. Starts to reload (say for instance when the threat was in cover). Threat still active.

You have a retained magazine in your hand. Is the priority to put the retained magazine in belt/webbing OR engage the threat/find a way to engage the threat? If so any tips of shooting even with that retained magazine in your hand as you grip the weapon? These reload habits are very important in training. Some say there are no reload drills but there are certainly things to iron out.
Ok, the way that I was trained; you ALWAYS deal with a current, active threat that is bent on engaging you, FIRST. Nothing else matters other than 1) Stopping the threat. There is no 2) in that concern. Stop the threat. Deal with empty or partially full magazines after the active threat is no longer active and attempting to engage you.
Ryan wrote:Was the action he conducted, reloading while threat in cover right or wrong? Can it be done?
I've done it, it can be done. If the threat is taking cover, that's the time to reload. The threat is doing the same.
Ryan wrote: Anyways you talked about resup. How does operational requirements affect your equipment and loadout selection. E.g: when will it be used; for how long will it be used; in what climate will I use this; how much do I need to carry and what are my options for re-supply etc. How do these affect what you choose to take?
You answered your own questions, lol.
Ryan wrote:I suppose all factors play in and contribute to the final decision; the mission drives the gear train as they say.
Yup.



http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/magazines/ - Some good tips!
"A tactical reload (Reloading even if you aren't out of ammo) is always performed before entering a new room."


Ryan wrote:What are your guys tips on repacking magazines? I.e. in a long firefight, you're hulled down and able to repack during a lull time, partials to fulls. Any other tips i.e. how belt order should be? Adjusting it for current threat?
I want the full magazines closest to hand. Preference and comfort outside of that, guides you.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: Reloading

Post by Ryan » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:36 pm

tacticalguy wrote:You answered your own questions, lol.
I play Devil's advocate and ask questions I already know the answers to. You should know this by now TG. :roll:
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

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"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Reloading

Post by tacticalguy » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:09 pm

Ryan wrote:
tacticalguy wrote:You answered your own questions, lol.
I play Devil's advocate and ask questions I already know the answers to. You should know this by now TG. :roll:
LOL. Yes, sir. I DO know that.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

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