Navy CQB

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Ryan
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Navy CQB

Post by Ryan » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:13 am

What do you guys reckon to Navy CQB? Ship boarding and clearing. Searching and seizing. The kind of stuff happening in the Gulf of Aden right now.

I was talking to an ex-Marine who said it's "CQB heavily pumped on steriods".









New terminology, new procedures. Freeboard height for example.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Dramatikk

Re: Navy CQB

Post by Dramatikk » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:43 pm

Ryan wrote:
This video is from a airsoft team ... Non offense, just want people to know.

Kind regards, Dramatikk. :)

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Ryan
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Re: Navy CQB

Post by Ryan » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:34 am

Yeah I know, still counts as CQB. :P Showing the complexity of ship clearing.



Image



Image

Underways are certainly complex. Is the ship stationary? Is it grounded? So on.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

bihwar
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Re: Navy CQB

Post by bihwar » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:22 pm

Being full of corridors, small rooms and stairs, a ship is a really demanding CQB environment! I guess the best thing is always to try to prevent boarding of pirates to the ship. However if that fails, that is to bad for them cause killhouse drill follows :D

Puddlepirate309
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Re: Navy CQB

Post by Puddlepirate309 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:56 pm

I taught basic CQB for the U.S. Navy as a contractor for 4 1/2 years and was in a USCG Deployable Operations Group unit for six, so I feel qualified to answer your question at least as far as U.S. units are concerned. Please understand that what follows is my personal opinion and worth about as much as I get paid to do this training right now - meaning zero.

Shipboard CQB is very challenging because it is/can be
1) Very tight, often forcing reliance on pistols.
2) Very dark
3) There is nowhere to disengage to, short of jumping overboard.
4) Most ships are a "720 degree" environment - 360 degrees around and 360 degrees vertically.
5) You are in an industrial environment, surrounded by things that can explode/hurt you if you shoot them, burn you if you touch them, electrocute you, snag your gear, not to mention low overheads and doors that you have to step 8-10 inches high and duck to get through.
6) Silent movement is nearly impossible.
7) Almost everything is a ricochet hazard.
8) Watertight doors make it very hard to enter quickly.
9) There are a lot of hiding places with only one way to get in.
10) The design of most interior ladders (stairs) creates vertical fatal funnels that extend multiple decks.
11) There is no good way short of a concussion grenade to enter or exit a scuttle (watertight opening between decks)
12) Vertical ladders.
13) Breaching options are very limited. Shotguns and breaching tools will not work on watertight doors, and confined spaces can preclude explosive breaching (which is only available to Special Warfare units in the USN). The available options are slow (exothermic torch/quiky saw) and radically slow the assault.

That is just off of the top of my head. Additional considerations include the availability of suitable weapons (Some commands have Mk 18 CQBRs, which are ideal. Most have M4s, which are less so. Some only have M16s and shotguns, which force assaulters to use M9 pistols with ball ammo. That is the worst available choice IMHO)

Unless the bad guys are really cooperative, there are only two ways to get to work - up a jacob's ladder from a bobbing boat, or down a fastrope. In real life hardly anybody gets to fastrope, so you now have to haul yourself and all of your kit up a small wire ladder and over the rail. The level of fitness to do that cannot be overstated. You had also better know how to swim because a lot of guys end up in the drink in all of their gear - the USCG lost a guy last year who fell from a jacob's ladder.

In short, I would compare someone trained to conduct maritime CQB to a carrier pilot. While any pilot who is carrier qualified can land his plane at a regular airport, the reverse is not true. Maritime CQB is also a niche skill set that carries over to other targets, but a landside team without Maritime training is setting themselves up for failure.

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tacticalguy
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Re: Navy CQB

Post by tacticalguy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:21 pm

Puddlepirate309 wrote:I taught basic CQB for the U.S. Navy as a contractor for 4 1/2 years and was in a USCG Deployable Operations Group unit for six, so I feel qualified to answer your question at least as far as U.S. units are concerned. Please understand that what follows is my personal opinion and worth about as much as I get paid to do this training right now - meaning zero.

Shipboard CQB is very challenging because it is/can be
1) Very tight, often forcing reliance on pistols.
2) Very dark
3) There is nowhere to disengage to, short of jumping overboard.
4) Most ships are a "720 degree" environment - 360 degrees around and 360 degrees vertically.
5) You are in an industrial environment, surrounded by things that can explode/hurt you if you shoot them, burn you if you touch them, electrocute you, snag your gear, not to mention low overheads and doors that you have to step 8-10 inches high and duck to get through.
6) Silent movement is nearly impossible.
7) Almost everything is a ricochet hazard.
8) Watertight doors make it very hard to enter quickly.
9) There are a lot of hiding places with only one way to get in.
10) The design of most interior ladders (stairs) creates vertical fatal funnels that extend multiple decks.
11) There is no good way short of a concussion grenade to enter or exit a scuttle (watertight opening between decks)
12) Vertical ladders.
13) Breaching options are very limited. Shotguns and breaching tools will not work on watertight doors, and confined spaces can preclude explosive breaching (which is only available to Special Warfare units in the USN). The available options are slow (exothermic torch/quiky saw) and radically slow the assault.

That is just off of the top of my head. Additional considerations include the availability of suitable weapons (Some commands have Mk 18 CQBRs, which are ideal. Most have M4s, which are less so. Some only have M16s and shotguns, which force assaulters to use M9 pistols with ball ammo. That is the worst available choice IMHO)

Unless the bad guys are really cooperative, there are only two ways to get to work - up a jacob's ladder from a bobbing boat, or down a fastrope. In real life hardly anybody gets to fastrope, so you now have to haul yourself and all of your kit up a small wire ladder and over the rail. The level of fitness to do that cannot be overstated. You had also better know how to swim because a lot of guys end up in the drink in all of their gear - the USCG lost a guy last year who fell from a jacob's ladder.

In short, I would compare someone trained to conduct maritime CQB to a carrier pilot. While any pilot who is carrier qualified can land his plane at a regular airport, the reverse is not true. Maritime CQB is also a niche skill set that carries over to other targets, but a landside team without Maritime training is setting themselves up for failure.
EXCELLENT summation of the hazards that face someone contemplating a Maritime ship assault.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
(Murphy's Cop Laws)

The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan. (Von Clausewitz)

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Ryan
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Re: Navy CQB

Post by Ryan » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:23 am

Excellent, experience at its finest!



Comments on this video?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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