Transition from right to left hand, right to left shoulder

Moderator: jimothy_183

User avatar
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 6:24 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Transition from right to left hand, right to left should

Post by DareTactical » Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:36 am

DTas wrote:I'll quote my answer to DareTactical to this thread.
Well, the simplest answer is no, none of the IDF units use shoulder transitions.
The idea behind it is that it would take too much time and ammo to train someone to do shoulder transitions and to shoot effectively.
Also, there is much emphasize on the mental readiness to recieve contact, that means never looking backwards, always having your eyes on the threat you cover etc, shoulder transitions kind of contradict that.
Also, when engaging from the weak side, i personally was taught and taught my guys to place the stock a bit closer to the center of the chest, this way it's a bit easier to avoid being too exposed.

Another small thing, as most of the CQB guys are taught mostly immediate entry, which treats houses as cardboard, why put so much emphasis on not being exposed?
Great insight. Thanks DTas.
I agree that side transitions lose their importance when conducting an immediate entry. There was a time when the British Army also adopted the position of placing the rifle butt at the center of the chest (against the hard plate of the body armour) when cornering. This was later replaced with the shoulder transition, keeping primary grip. We used, and still use, the SA80A2 which is the least ideal bullpup for shoulder transitions in my opinion, thanks to the reciprocating cocking handle. It means that when we transition to left shoulder, we have to rotate the rifle so that the right face of it is at 45 degrees to the ground, so that we don't catch the cocking handle with our chin.

I understand the rational behind not using transitions, it definitely streamlines training and prevents soldiers from constantly having to, and worrying about switching shoulders and switching grips, which can kill their confidence in the heat of battle. I suspect this SOP also has a lot to do with you guys having used M4 type carbines for so long, which is generally slower and riskier (since you would probably switch grips) to transition than bullpups (although I am aware that most units now use the Tavor).

What are everyone's views on pistol 'shoulder transitions' (switching the primary hand used to hold the pistol)? Is there a need for them?
I would argue that there isnt, since most combat pistol shooting stances are symmetrical, such as the Isosceles Stance, which means the pistol is aligned to the center of the body, and this pistol position can be moved to one side or the other with ease, depending on the direction of an upcoming corner. This is different from rifles which require a shouldered buttstock, making most rifle stances asymetrical, as one side is dominant, which is why shoulder transitions are an important topic for rifles.
"train hard, fight easy"

User avatar
Posts: 2810
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Transition from right to left hand, right to left should

Post by Ryan » Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:30 am


Teaching people retained versus non-retained shoulder transitions by the looks.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Post Reply

Return to “CQB General Discussions ”