furniture and other obsticals

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Jack
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furniture and other obsticals

Post by Jack » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:26 pm

OK you enter a room and are walking the wall and there is a couch in front of you. What do you do? Is somebody behind it? Hiding inside of it? Is the couch keeping you from walking the wall like you want to?

Most people would pie out to check behind the couch. But consider instead giving it a good shove for a kick. Move it forward out of your way, or just walk right over the top of it. Now you have cleared a threat area without even moving form your position.

The point is that there is more than one way to deal with obstacles and threat areas. Moving the couch or chair is going to tell you if somebody is hiding behind it, in it, or under it, without having to spend a lot of time checking.

Of course this isn't always tactically sound or appropriate to do this, but it is something to think about and train on.

DON'T LET FURNITURE DICTATE YOUR ROUTE OF TRAVEL OR YOUR USE OF TACTICS.

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Post by Admin » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:37 pm

I agree with you, even thou the books states: around - over – under.

The furniture are not always booby-traped
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Mad Bastard
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Post by Mad Bastard » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:41 am

i also agree and think it is a fine point that is often not touched on at all even though in the real world environments there is some form of furniture in pretty much every room of most buildings to include machinery in teh other industrial sectors and the like. the biggest liklihood when the enemy has any sort of room defense is to think where you will be walking as dictated by the layout of the room, booby traps are not very prevalent at all id say at least 80% of teh time especially on furniture, but using furniture and room obstacles to canalize your enemy into a kill zone or red zone to draw fire from multiple or hidden angles is one of the first things anyone defending a room thinks about or sets up for. another point is teh recon by fire technique, shoot through the furniture, (although this would only be acceptible in high intensity threat environments and even then with small calibre weapons and adequate building construction to prevent over penetration and fratricide) because of the sterile nature of most nicer training facilities there is a lot lacking in the way of realistic room setups, its amazing how the dynamics change when you take your team for training in real buildings and houses using airsoft or paintball systems because then you have to deal with all nature of obstacles in the exact same manner as you would in the real situation. one thing i would suggest on adapting to this training shortcoming would be the addition of some old furniture to your killhouses and department training facilities if there is any available to scrounge up in order to increase the realism of the training.
my prefered method of training is using OPFOR (opposing forces) with force on force especially with paintball guns, the reflexive shooting is there, as well as the ranges expected in urban combat, and you will be training against a live enemy in a much more realistic training environment and save teh money on teh bullets and liabilities as well.
ive been recently contracted to train up a 4-7 man team for military simulation competitions using paintball equipment and im pretty impressed with it even though ive used paintball extensively in teh past as a training tool. just food for thought but i think the furniture thing needs to be integrated into all training regardless. thanks for bringing that to light.
regards, The Mad Bastard

Jack
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Post by Jack » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:00 am

Good point about recon by fire. Although limited application, it is worth bringing it up.

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Re: furniture and other obsticals

Post by badger » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:40 pm

Furniture is necessary in our training. Too often I see teams train in "aquarium or laboratory conditions" - rooms and halls without furniture, without barriers. Then in real world, they are find that is different.

Of course for basics its good, but no for advanced skills and refreshing trainings.

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Re: furniture and other obsticals (obstacles)

Post by Ryan » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:09 am

Communications too, if there is a clearing to right you'd have to shout 'PUSH RIGHT' or 'OBSTACLE, PUSH RIGHT' - something along those lines.

And keep your eyes on the move, don't hesitate and look towards the obstacle.

"When crossing a large obstacle, hand off your gun to your buddy before crossing or safety it."


Speaking of obstacles, what if you fall over one?


2:33 - Jump over obstacle.

Things I've found:
- Low obstacle, jump it. Step over it. Step onto and off it.
- High obstacle, duck it.
- Medium obstacle, go around it or hold ground to decide a course of action.
- The door can become an obstacle, so kick it out the way if it does. Use your feet!
- The foot you land with is the OPPOSITE side you are going. If you land on your left foot, you're going right, this springs you towards that direction (imagine it).
- You can move the weapon around the obstacle, move yourself away from it or move the weapon into you. You can position your body like hugging the cover to allow you to shoot accurately and more safely (in cover) at someone coming around the obstacle.

Image
Note: Body positioning allowing triangulation of fire without poly-kills and friendly fire.


When stuff is in your way - settle down, get your thoughts clear.
You need to check overheads, under tables, around objects.
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Re: furniture and other obsticals

Post by Jack » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:13 pm

If you fall over an obstacle, quickly scan to make sure none of your team members noticed. If they didn't notice, get back up. If they noticed then just stay prone and order everyone else to get down. Lead form the front. :mrgreen:

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Re: furniture and other obsticals

Post by Ryan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:52 am


8:30! Obstacle: door!

So because the door did not split, it was too big for a narrow hallway, it got stuck on an oblique angle leaving the team to squeeze in either end and putting the second man off his priority threat for a moment. That's why recce/room layouts need measurements to go along, you can weigh up these errors.

What to do in this situation?

Could the point man literally lift it and put it on the far side of the hallway allowing 2 and 3 to move past and then 1 can pick up with his buddy?
Do they use something explosive or that will rip the door instead?
Do they ignore it? (Do you think that was done correctly?)
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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