Checking behind doors

Forum to discuss CQB entry tactics / room clearing, with other registered users.

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Checking behind doors

Post by jimothy_183 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:13 am

Should teams check behind doors every time a room is cleared? Or should it only be done when there is a space big enough for a person to hide in?

I ask this because when I saw this picture
Image
I thought, even if the team that enters and clears the room from the open door on the right and the door seems to hit the wall then there could still be something behind the door such as another door or maybe there could be a small recessed area behind the door.
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Post by Admin » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:09 pm

Always check places where people could hide

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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:07 pm

Good point, how could I forget.
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Post by Jack » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:34 am

An important start is to open the door forcefully and try and push it as far open as possible. That will be your best indication that somebody is hiding behind the door. However it will still need to be check after entry is made.

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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:12 am

Sounds good but I also wanted to ask whether it should be the operator that's closest to the corner that checks behind the door or should it be the operator closest to the point of entry? And also, when exactly during the room entry should the door be checked?
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Post by Admin » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:09 am

That is always a tricky one. The first man slams the door up, and checks his immediate threat area then the corner. If it all looks good he turns and check the door. If he is engaging a threat he doesn’t have time the check the door, then the second man on the wall have to do this. But if he also….. Do you get the picture!

In short, someone have to check the door, as fast as possible and it might not be the same every time.
Blow the door away and the problem is solved. :D

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Post by Jack » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:31 am

The problem with having an SOP with this is that it always depends on the door and the room. In some rooms, you know that their is nobody behind it when you open it, so it would not be logical to check it. Other times it must be checked. Of course if you dump multiple people into a room, somebody like the three or four man could check it.

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Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:11 pm

My team has come across a problem where even if you have 4 men entering a room when either 1 or 2 man checks behind the door they have to worry about both the threats in their sector and the possible threat behind the door. If he leaves the door for the man behind him he'll be exposing his pack to the possible threat behind the door for about a second and if he checks behind the door he'll be exposing his back to the threats in his sector.

How do you overcome this problem?
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Post by Jack » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:03 am

Ask everyone to come out of the room before you enter it. That way their are no bad guys behind the door. :lol:

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Post by jimothy_183 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:18 am

Ha, ok let me add something:
When your entering in dynamic mode. :wink:
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Post by Jack » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:02 pm

This is the danger of doing dynamic entries without speed, surprise and violence of action. If you don't have those things, then the enemy has time to get set and ambush you. If you do it right, their will be nobody behind the door, because they didn't have time to get their. That is why you can't always use dynamic entries.

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Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:19 am

Alright then, let me add more to the scenario.

Your in systematic but you know there is an armed baddie in the room and he refuses to come out after being instructed to do so. Only option now is to go dynamic and enter the room to do what you need to do.

If he is hiding behind the door with the intent of ambushing the operators then we come back to this problem:
My team has come across a problem where even if you have 4 men entering a room when either 1 or 2 man checks behind the door they have to worry about both the threats in their sector and the possible threat behind the door. If he leaves the door for the man behind him he'll be exposing his pack to the possible threat behind the door for about a second and if he checks behind the door he'll be exposing his back to the threats in his sector.

How do you overcome this problem?
Now I think this is where my question becomes valid is it not?
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Post by Admin » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:13 am

Well if you know that he is in the room, and he communicated that he is armed and wont come out.
That would tell me that he is ready to engage you and he is properly in hiding.

First I would tray to gas him out, it that doesn’t work, I would send in a K9 unit to take him out.
If that is not an option, I want a team abseiling down to the window and engage him from there, to draw his attention away from the door, so a another team can do a dynamic entry using flash bangs and sting balls to ad to the element of surprise.
If your only option is to make entry at the door, I would tray to pie the most of the room from outside the room, because you know that he is waiting for you. Use mirrors and a ballistic shield, to enter the room slow.

If you want to do a dynamic entry as a first solution. Use speed surprise aggression and dominate the room kicking the door to the wall and expect casualties

When the door is kicked open block the door with a foot to prevent the door from closing again, so if there is some one behind the door he is “trapped” there.

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Post by jcheng14 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:07 am

Really, when the element of surprise is gone and a subject is expecting you. Dynamic entries become much less useful. The use of distractions or aids is paramount.

A room with a door is especially hard to work with because you are robbed of advance knowledge of the room layout. blueprints will only show you the size, not where any tables or chairs etc might be. Thus he can be anywhere inside the room, behind cover or concealment, whereas you only have one entry point.

The military likes to create their own entry points, and this is much preferred then having to use the door a subject will be watching. However, in the event you cannot blow a hole in the wall or pull the wall down, one MUST use aids such as flashbangs or gas. Otherwise said subject can open fire as he sees the door start to open and have a good chance of catching people coming in, or people in stack.

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Post by RonD » Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:40 am

Doesn't come out w/verbals, gas, then K9, then distraction, more verbals, more gas, more distraction, let his ass wait if presenting no major problems, subject will come out when he's choking up blood and has a few scratches from the puppy patrols. Then when the subject comes out :wink:

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Re: Checking behind doors

Post by Dramatikk » Thu May 19, 2011 12:58 pm

Talking about problems conserning doors ... What to do when a person inside the room is blocking the door for the entry team?

*snip*

Kind regards, Dramatikk. :)
Last edited by Dramatikk on Fri May 20, 2011 12:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Checking behind doors

Post by Ryan » Fri May 20, 2011 12:07 pm

Image
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Checking behind doors

Post by jimothy_183 » Sat May 21, 2011 3:30 am

If you have breaching equipement, take out the hinges.
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Re: Checking behind doors

Post by Ryan » Sun May 22, 2011 7:17 am

Yeah breaching equipment, dynamic hammer! Or CS/tear gas..... Or find another way in?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Checking behind doors

Post by badger » Sun May 22, 2011 7:38 am

no man cant stop the door, when you use RAM, or hydraulic. You will do simply, what you do every time - ramming the door, after that you can notice some attempt to stop you :)

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