Passing Open Doors

Forum to discuss CQB entry tactics / room clearing, with other registered users.

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Alan
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Passing Open Doors

Post by Alan » Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Can this be done under any circumstances? If so how can this be achieved safely ?

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Post by jimothy_183 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:05 am

I think a circumstance where an open door has to be passed is when there is only a small team clearing rooms and has to get to a particular room quickly.

Now as for a technique that would allow you to do this safely would probably be to pie the doorway. Now if your in a hallway and a threat might pop out and shoot the operator pieing the doorway then you'd probably want another operator to move with the pieing operator to protect him by covering what ever is down that hallway.

Here is a quote from an article where you can find the technique:
http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/calibre-press/articles/1298389/ wrote:Schlegel and his teaching partners, Rick Rector and George Creamer, favor clearing much of the room and processing that information from outside the doorway before making entry, if possible. Their preferred technique is “slicing the pie.”

Assume a three-officer cell is moving down a hallway approaching a bedroom doorway on the left, with another uncleared room farther ahead.

In a continuous, fluid motion, the first officer “pies” across to the opposite (right) side of the bedroom door with his gun up, ready for an encounter that might originate from inside the room. The second officer moves with him but his concentration is down the hallway, protecting the team from a threat that may emerge down range. Officer No. 3 stays on the left side of the door, monitoring what he can see inside the bedroom from his vantage point.

By the time the first and third officers make entry, they may have been able to visually clear 75% or more of the room, thereby significantly minimizing the unknown risk they may confront there.
And here is an image of what I think the technique is supposed to look like (except it's a closed door):
Image
Source of image

The only problem I have with the technique is that it is too time consuming and should probably be only used in stealth mode. Perhaps there is another technique that would be faster but not sacrifice safety too much? Otherwise the only alternative I have is actually clearing each room.

P.S: The forums I got the pic from is a law enforcement forum and that particular thread I got the pic form is about one of Mr Howe's "CSAT Advanced Patrol Tactics" classes. I think that is a pretty cool thread there.
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Post by Admin » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:25 am

I agree with jimothy_183. If you at short of personnel this is a good but slow way to go past a connecting room or a room in a hallway.
If you have a lot of open doors in a room and some furniture the angels get very tight, and some times you just can’t secure them all in a safe way, but if somebody know of a failsafe way to do this please tell :-)

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Post by jimothy_183 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:45 am

Admin wrote:if somebody know of a failsafe way to do this please tell :-)
Well perhaps not a failsafe way because as the CQB-Team website says, there is no such thing as a fail safe method. :wink:

But yes, it would be great if someone were to share a technique that they know. :)
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Post by Admin » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:33 am

Good point :D

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Post by jcheng14 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:19 am

I'm going to work from the assumption that you are in a hall, trying to get to the end of the hall, and there is an open door in the middle of the hall on the left side.

Moving in file down the hall, Point's AOR is the door, 2nd is the end of the hall. Rest of the team will slow as Point reaches door. Remember, since he was keying in on the door the whole time, by the time he has visually swept much of the far side of the room (the side farther down the hall), except for the corner. While passing the room, Point will key in on near side doorframe while moving. Sort of a quick pie if you will, once passed, he positions far side door frame and will cover the nearside room while the rest of the team passes. At the point where the rest of the team catches up, the new Point will key on the near doorframe when passing and the 2nd (original 3rd) takes the hall.

Thus, the majority of the room is being visually swept (except for the corners), and should anything be hiding in the corners and attempt to move out, it would be engagaable by point or 2nd depending on which corner it came from.

It might be easier to imagine if you think of them moving in a V, with the point crossing, right side covers the hall while passing, left covers room while passing.


Its not foolproof, (if there are doors or the room is shaped wierdly there can be problems) but if you practice it enough you should be fluid enough that you can pass by the doors rapidly enough.



However, in entries, one should never have to pass by a room that needs to be covered. If you think there is a threat that requires you to cover it, you should clear the room. In police entries, one should know the layout and location of subjects which allows you to bypass unnecessary rooms. Should the subjects location not be known, all rooms should be cleared in progression.

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Post by jimothy_183 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:11 pm

jcheng14 wrote:However, in entries, one should never have to pass by a room that needs to be covered. If you think there is a threat that requires you to cover it, you should clear the room. In police entries, one should know the layout and location of subjects which allows you to bypass unnecessary rooms. Should the subjects location not be known, all rooms should be cleared in progression.
I think that sometimes when you do not have intel on the locations of subject and you need to get to a particular room ASAP then you might need to bypass rooms. Although it would obviously be much safer to clear all the rooms progressively and in a logical order, I think that if the team is maintaining a coverage of 360 degrees that it should suffice for such a situation.
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Post by jcheng14 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:59 pm

Thats a good point. I was, however, going from the assumption it was just a standard domination type entry and no hostages or bombs or anything.
It's bad form to leave a possibility of threats to your rear.

Even in the event of a hostage situation (since with a bomb you just clear the building for the bomb unit anyways), police generally have enough time to get the floor plans of a building, and possibly might even have enough time to build a mock-up etc, and intel should be flowing.

Even failing that, generally they are able to field enough teams / officers that all rooms may be cleared in sequence, but at nearly the same time.

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