clearing a corner

Forum to discuss CQB entry tactics / room clearing, with other registered users.

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Post by Jack » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:03 pm

Cool.

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Post by jcheng14 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:10 am

Doesnt work too well when they are completely prepared and expecting you. The reason being that your shoulder or side of the helmet will always be visible a split second before the rest of your gun / head comes around the angle. Otherwise, this is a very useable method, and everybody ought to be proficient at it.

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cornering techniques

Post by geryban » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:03 pm

our cqb and other techniques based by real experience. we used slice the pie, and high and lowe tech, modified by us. our sliceing technique is more dinamic, than usually used. check your elbow, your head (your helmet) and your foot. the weapon go first, so when you move, you approaching to the corner. if you only open the angle, your foot will go first... when you see the enemy, or baricade, you have to finish sliceing and open the anglge very fast, (if this word exist :) moving perpendicular for the fireing line. we do it in two mans team, first go low, second go high, and its working! we use the high and lowe normally, and our modified, when he first man go high, and moving right angle, second go low and shoot... based by penetration flod...
Last edited by geryban on Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by RonD » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:23 pm

Move slow, let feet catch up, pie the corner, when I'm close I go low to get off eye level sight of the subject. If the subject knows I'm coming (and they usually do), I'm gonna get off the natural eye level line of sight and go low to get off that line, and to present a small target. If I can gain an advantage by making the subject move their weapon down to engage me, I can take that split second to return fire and neutralize.

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Post by Jack » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:57 pm

Target minimization is always a good thing. Going to a kneeling also allows for another Operator to tuck in and shoot over you.

Plus depending on the furniture in the house, you might be able to use concealment or better yet cover from objects located both near you position and deep inside the room.

Naturally the best part of going kneeling is the element of surprise.

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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Tue May 22, 2012 9:18 am

Necropost:

First rule. Dominate corners. Next rule. Dominate the space.

"Approaching corners

I'm sure you've seen it..in the movies, two guys with guns..one on each side of the corner 3 feet from each other ready to jump out..doesnt that seem stupid..well it is. When you are approaching a corner or room in a hallway or into a room with no door you want to be as far away from the corner as you can as you approach. if your going to be going around the right side, then you approach the corner against the left side wall, with your sights raised just below your eyes with the gun ALWAYS pointed right at the corner. If there is reason to suspect danger from the opposite corner, such as in a room just across the hall from the one your clearing..then you have a second man doing just the same you are across from you...but several feet back. This way..they will have sight of any danger in that room before anyone in that room can see you...its all about angles... As you get even with the doorway, and you are facing the door from directly across the hall, if you still haven't seen anything, just keep going doing the exact opposite down the hall walking backwards...your cover man approaching the door just as you did...once every possible viewable angle inside the room has been seen..then you can breech...and when you do you know the only areas you should have to worry about are the small angles exact opposite the outside walls that you could not see when clearing the room, or any closets or cabinetry."

Slicing the pie can be very bad with a prepared enemy. They engage and you will instinctively pull to cover, this means you lose visual contact and the advantage (and spall, ricochets, etc, bad stuff. I can see all the benefits in any other scenario.

A good method, if you have space, is to come to the corner. Square it up. Back away slowly until you expose the area around it. Leaning and peeking helps. It creates a smaller target, as you are further away from the wall, but you have no cover. You could break and sprint into that cover though. If someone expects an individual coming around that corner, they probably won't lead it but will keep the muzzle line static on that corner anticipating that move. If another 2 high/low or whatever, you can lead or run the rabbit and gain full advantage (but you will over/angle expose yourself to other threats).

Another is to get as low as possible and only expose one eye as you peek it, target minimization. Because you are virtually prone you can get 3 men on the corner. 3 man high/lows with this, quite funny actually - I remember seeing a picture of some Germans in Afghan, sat on top of the guy prone lol.

Image

Constantly changing heights, angles and having back-ups plans certainly help. Curving your body as much as possible to expose your muzzle.



You can also drop height, going to prone on your side and clearing the corner, you have to minimize over-exposure by weighing and eye'ing up the corner and the angle of the threat if possible. As seen in the video below. The good thing about this is that you can get three men on the corner or a buddy can drag you back by the feet if you are in danger.

"Torso Articulation and Slicing The Pie

Torso Articulation is an individual movement technique that allows an assaulter to twist the upper body and place the only the weapon system and the aiming system (operators head and eyes) into a danger zone. Torso articulation can be done both deliberately and dynamically but generally has its greatest value when used in conjunction with a dynamic tactic. A quick torso articulation can be done in a smooth fluid movement that provides the opposition force with very little time to react and the assaulter with the most possible cover and concealment while continuing to move to clear the threat. Slicing the pie or “pieing” is a more deliberate technique that combines many smaller movements and can be somewhat slower but provide with greater control over threat areas when in a smaller unit with limited security assets. Below we have included a short video that should illustrate the two movement techniques."

Image
Image
Read more: http://tacticalathleticperformance.com/ ... b-and-cqc/ ... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=158928004255327 ...

"Basic deliberate cornering method: narrow, 45,90,45, attack the corner/sliver.

Additionally, If you don't know why I am close to cover, you need to research human behavior under duress. We train towards nature. I have never seen a person stay off of cover when the bullets are flying close in a spontaneous situation. We call it behavior based CQB. Staying off of cover often fails in the real world, because instincts over-ride training that isn't perfect. Then operators are left with no skill working close to cover and flail or fail to perform."



With pie'ing too, you do not want to misalign your feet, cross your feet. You want to go with a boxer stance, which will depend on your dominant hand. And go from there, that will prevent most falls and allow you to see the threat without over-exposing one side of your body or a part of it before you see them.
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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:26 am



3:35.

"Rolling out" versus slicing the pie. Slicing the pie is also known as partition drills in the ADF.

This is actually closely related to angles and speed topics but I thought I'd post it here anyhow.

Image

"Basic cornering at various speeds/types of operations. Near universal principles adapted to the situation. That is what our method is all about. KISS methods, build, drill, adaptive response." - From IACT Tactical. Note: These are "close" examples, you can come further away from the corner if needed.

The only thing I don't fully understand is going the full 90 degrees, I go as far as I can to recognize NO THREAT, then pull STRAIGHT INTO my sectors. If I went the full 90 it's a waste of 0.2 seconds - that minimal amount of time for "Headshot!" ... A human can only fit in a certain area, I scan to that area and pull back out again. It can only get smaller if the enemy is sucking up to the walls, huh? :P Sometimes I use my peripheral vision to clear it as I concentrate on a confirmed threat, barricade or the EC.

Other times I cheat the 90 by going say 75 and then stepping out - the step-out as it's known, because it's that simple. When I do this and come across contact, I can break or collapse on it with a team by corner flooding.

"Cornering (or the ability to negotiate a corner effectively) – The speed at which you conduct an angular search (AKA “slicing the pie”) is based on your ability to interpret what you see and be able to react to it. Some people can do it faster than others. Angular searches should be done as FAR from the corner as the environment or situation will allow, within reason. This maximizes your distance to help increase your angle and allows you to have a good shooting platform." - http://pro-activetraining.us/files/JW_CQB_article.pdf ...

Another good technique is strafing the corner, popping in and out and engaging, moving heights, being random.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: clearing a corner

Post by jimothy_183 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:49 am

Very interesting diagrams of corner clearing variations. I had a rather simplistic version of this idea in the first page of this thread, but these seem to be better solutions.

I would be interested to know what IACT teaches in terms of two or more men clearing corners and if they teach the high low.
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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:58 am

Traditional High/Low vs True High/Low.

Traditional is utilized for reload drills, and so forth.

Image

This is not an IACT (HTS LLC) Tactical one but there is modified versions where either man adjusts his position and micro-adjusts to the obstacles such as dependencies based on height, width of cover, type of cover such as vertical or horizontal.

Image
Image
It should be said that some disagree with going over the right or left limit as your low man due to over-exposure, acute angles without two muzzles on threat and early compromise for the high/low team.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: clearing a corner

Post by jimothy_183 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:01 am

What are the differences, pros and cons of each? And is this a case of the new version being better than the old version or is it a case of the two still being valid and relevant?
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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:36 am

The two still being valid and relevant of course.

Less over-exposure, chance of spall or ricochet hitting the rear man. Front can therefore use a shield. I suppose you could fit three guys into that method, one at each side of the front man. You can move with the true high/low as front partner you can laterally move away from the partner side, i.e. if the partner shoots on your left hip, which you'll feel, you can move right freely. As opposed to traditional where you'd have to grab them or move around them.

Of course the main pro is that it makes it harder for the rear man to split the door and fight from the other side of the doorway, he has to change stance to move quickly, the top-guy may be shot and fall back onto him.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:33 pm

"THE CORNER - Staple of Tactical Movement -

You find corners everywhere in modern and ancient architecture. Knowing how to negotiate one is the fundamental skill. There are corners and there are architectural features that are made up of corners. A door is basically two corners with a tight opening. An intersection of two hallways is a double corner. You can find more examples.

First is recognition of the corner and identification of it being Right or left Sided Corner. We show you ways to deal with each one of those two possibilities. Then Identify the “Apex” of the corner. This is the corner's edge which you will use to pivot your movement on. Identify “Line Of Danger”. This is the imaginary line that is created by the opposite wall and where you must be careful the closer you get to it.

Once this is done, its easy to Determine A Path of Angular Search. Eyes, Muzzle, and Target are kept in alignment in some Situationally Appropriate Ready. Move naturally and not in some crab-walking mode. There are direct correlations between “taking the corner” and the Force On Force/Get-Off-The-X methods you already know.

Once you can do a corner smoothly and safely, all other architectural obstacles will have an answer." - http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/06/ ... s-dvd.html ...

The APEX is also known as the lip of the corner. From there you can find your centre of line where you're going to snap into.

Image
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:41 pm



Jimothy. 2:20. Where the 'true' high/low is demonstrated.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

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"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: clearing a corner

Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:04 am

Good catch.
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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:35 am

And another here Jimothy:

24:56.


Below: Ex-SEAL talks corners and dead ground.


CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: clearing a corner

Post by Ryan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:59 am

Tips for pie'ing:
1. Don't hover on top of the corner, give space. Reason being someone can grab or push the muzzle if they are at the corner.
2. Transition appropriately to corner, as it may be the difference between who see's who first.
3. I'd also add to not hold your weapon statically while pie'ing but to associate it near to far.

As per below.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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