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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:53 am
by jimothy_183
One more thing.

I see a lot of teams where the first two operators who enter, enter almost at the same time where the second man is right behind the first man. Obviously this is to try and take both sides of the room as quickly as possible. Is that something all teams should train to do? And also is it necessary for the operators behind the first two operators to move in just a quickly or is it ok for the to lag behind slightly?

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:22 am
by jimothy_183
Here is a picture of the JSDF (Japanese Self Defence Force) doing some room clearing:

Image

As you can see they use a stance that is very reminiscent to that of a martial arts stance when establishing PODs.

What do you guys think of this technique?

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:58 pm
by Admin
jimothy_183 wrote: What is the best solution when there is a small recessed space above and "behind" the point of entry where a threat can stay and hide in and shoot at whoever comes in through the door. I think this can be really hard as you don't know the layout of the room and what not.
It is a problem, I think that one way to solve this is if you do a wall flood and you reached your dominating possession, the operators scan there sectors, in normal height, then low and at last high and behind. It would have to be a team sop.
It is a hard one.

Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:10 pm
by Admin
jimothy_183 wrote:
I see a lot of teams where the first two operators who enter, enter almost at the same time where the second man is right behind the first man. Obviously this is to try and take both sides of the room as quickly as possible. Is that something all teams should train to do? And also is it necessary for the operators behind the first two operators to move in just a quickly or is it ok for the to lag behind slightly?

All teams must be able to do 2 man entries, because when the entry plans fuck up, or if you are shot of personnel. You must be able to continue, the minimum of men doing entry into a room is 2.

Some teams put all 4 operators in the room as fast as possible to dominate as fast as possible, others let 1 and 2 enter then wait a second before putting 3 and 4 into the room, If there is a enemy in the room he will try to shoot at the door but if only 2 men enter he have to aim his weapon at 1 or 2 that are moving at the walls, this allows 3 and 4 to enter while the enemy is focused on the first 2 men.

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:03 am
by jimothy_183
Admin wrote:Some teams put all 4 operators in the room as fast as possible to dominate as fast as possible, others let 1 and 2 enter then wait a second before putting 3 and 4 into the room, If there is a enemy in the room he will try to shoot at the door but if only 2 men enter he have to aim his weapon at 1 or 2 that are moving at the walls, this allows 3 and 4 to enter while the enemy is focused on the first 2 men.
Although I can see that the part about waiting a second before the 3 and 4 men enter has a use but I'd say you might as well just have all 4 men enter in one go instead of risking the lives of the first 2 men.

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:41 pm
by Admin
I agree, if you use a distraction device it is the best option in my book

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:27 am
by jcheng14
If there is a recessed area above / behind the entryway that your team does not know about.....well then you do not know about it and you are royally screwed.

You want to get your team inside as quickly as possible, if there is a subject in the middle of the room that was somehow not engaged while your point and two were swinging to their corners, having three and four wait is not ideal. Should subject engage your guys in the room against the walls, they would have moved towards the corners. The hostiles bullet tracks would move from the center of the room towards the corner, which means he could potentially miss the guys in the room but have his rounds go through the wall and hit your guys outside.

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:16 pm
by jimothy_183
As a solution for the recessed area above and behind the point of entry I think that if there is such an area where a threat can hide then the room would have to have a high ceiling. As a result if a team encounters a room where the ceiling is higher than normal then the team should look up and check for threats above after clearing the normal height area.

Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:53 pm
by jcheng14
It really depends on the angle, because if he can shoot down at you once you enter the room, he would be shooting before you completed your sweep of the normal height.

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:01 am
by jcheng14
From what I understand, the first and second scan the middle of the room, then the corners, while the third and fourth scan the corners before the middle.

If I have that right, I don't much like it. Hard corners are too far down the list, and the first and third ought to be checking the same place at the same time. Same with the second and fourth. There might be problems if somebody enters the room from the wall opposite the entry point.

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:31 am
by Admin
jcheng14 wrote:From what I understand, the first and second scan the middle of the room, then the corners, while the third and fourth scan the corners before the middle.
:?:
http://www.cqb-team.com/4%20man%20wall%20flood.html

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:46 pm
by VIZCANO
I have a question.. what would u do in this map?

Image

Your team is outside and must go in. But:

* In The hospital there are hostile waiting for you (you don’t have the surprise element)

* Its very hard for you to get close to the windows because of the "hard access area" (small trees, many rocks and Ceiling peaces) you would be seen if you try to go through it

*There are only two possible entry points.

*The hostiles can be in the rooms, in the "hard access area" in the center of the structure, even inside the hole...


I have seen all the entry techniques from this site, the one that looks more proper to use in this map is the saturation technique: hallways... But, as you can see in the pictures... is a very WIDE hallway...

So... What would you do?
:?: :wink:

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:41 pm
by jimothy_183
Well, first off I would want to only use one of the hostpital's entry points to enter the hospital and get that hallway cleared. Once that's done you can start swarming in the rest of your operators to start the hard work on the rooms. Have a couple of operators covering the other entry point to prevent the enemy from escaping.

Then As you said before a saturation technique for hallways should be used, and no I don't think it matters if the hallway is that wide, it should still work even if the hallway was wider.

Because the rooms are so small I would recommend you have 2 operators to a room to prevent crowding up those rooms.

For each room it would probably be a good idea to use tactical aids such as flashbangs, the small rooms should make it harder for the enemy to hide from the effects of the tactical aid.

When the you've cleared enough rooms to have moved the team up the hall to be able to reach that hole, get some operators to clear the hole in the middle of the room.

Lastly I think when you have cleared the first room left and right, get the operators in those rooms to get out the windows to clear the hard access area from there.

read this book excerpt from a book on the battle for falluja

Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:26 pm
by arthur
you guys might be interested in this book excerpt.there a corporal from the marine corp doing a technique called running the rabbit read it tell your comments.http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/s ... _glory.htm

Re: read this book excerpt from a book on the battle for fal

Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:22 pm
by Admin
arthur wrote:you guys might be interested in this book excerpt.there a corporal from the marine corp doing a technique called running the rabbit
It sounds like the "Wedge"
http://www.cqb-team.com/Wedge.html

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:57 am
by jcheng14
Answer to the hospital question. CX gas.

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:59 am
by jimothy_183
You mean CX or CS? :?

The hospital

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:05 am
by german8
go to youtube and watch some swat videos thats where i get most of my mixed tactics

Re: The best entry technique

Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:00 am
by badger
Depand on situation...

Be very fast, until the moment when we lost the element of surprise.

Its suicide to go fast in the room when we lost element of surprise and there will be suspect with gun pointed to the door.

Re: The best entry technique

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:02 am
by Dramatikk
Hmmm... Nice one Badger.
Have always thought it was the other way around, first slow than fast. Good thing I'm not in this business, I would have been shot dead on my first day by doing this deadly mistake. :(