Nathan Answers Issues on the Limited Entry

Forum to discuss CQB entry tactics / room clearing, with other registered users.

Moderators: jimothy_183, Admin

Post Reply
User avatar
Posts: 2810
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:10 am
Location: Australia

Nathan Answers Issues on the Limited Entry

Post by Ryan » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:39 pm

"Hey Nathan,

Rye from CQB-TEAM. Here are my issues:-

SOP issues/solutions


How do you contain a target room with the presence of enemy?

See the slides, but in general I keep locked down what is already locked down until I can incrementally improve position.


How do you re-attack a room that you were forced out of or lost the fight at the door?

The big thing is suppressive fire, through the wall if necessary, and either alternating roll-outs at different heights, triangulation, or any mix thereof. I believe in distraction and suppression with heavy fire used in unorthodox ways. Some people are worried about retention when holding weapon out to shoot around a door, the easiest way to solve that is to hold it low aiming upward, or to stick it out the door low and zipper shots upward. The L formation with your partner really makes that a non issue though. Regarding rolling out, I do not lean as many people do. I keep my weight fairly centered and roll out from the hip. One leg is not drastically weighted more than the other.

One thing I didn't cover in the slides I sent you, is that if I don't have flashbangs and the walls can be penetrated, if a man takes fire at the door and backs up just shy of the threat line, a man further down from the door in the stack can note the one-man's position, and make a rough adjustment to fire directly through the side of the wall as the team re-enters. It's not a banger but it does work as an effective diversion.

Self-closing doors

How do you deal with SCDs?

I don't clear quite the same as what I've seen of the high threat guys. Because the one man runs long, the two man pulls opposite, so the door will stay propped open by two-man, and he can always back into it to pin it for a door clear.

Contested hallways

How do LE techniques work in hallways, especially those of which are contested?

I covered this in the slides, but basically it's all about using your stack effectively. Using the staircase formation solves most of the issues and makes movement feasible even if you don't have room for a proper L. Movement is diagonal and fast in between rooms, I don't want to chill in the hallway longer than necessary. People talk about "hanging out in the hallway" but that isn't a clearing issue, that's a breaching issue, and is exactly the same if you go dynamic except now you're using a more dangerous technique.

Contested streets

Same thing as above but for (usually) initial entries from contested streets.

This question is a huge "what if," and usually gets thrown out by people that are grasping at straws. The reason is, context is everything. What is this? Is it a raid? Are you taking a city? Is there a perimeter? Is there no outside security whatsoever and your team or squad is magically alone in a hostile city having to take a building like in The Hurt Locker? I always use spread out leapfrogging, L formations, and triangulation with men in two-man groups. You may notice in the slides that even when people were in a stack, that stack is a fluid thing and even a larger L is broken up into smaller 2-man L's. Leapfrogging in two man teams allows forward and outward security at the same time, while also covering the advancing team. The stack happens at the door, and one team can be providing some form of suppression outward from positions at the sides of the building if necessary. Otherwise, this is a perimeter, sniper, etc issue, so the context would have to be defined.

One thing regarding entering the building. Again, this is not a clearing issue, this is a breach issue. The breach is the killer, and the breach is the same regardless of technique. One thing we did when we were in a serious hurry is one and two-man would alternate kicking. One man may pull and two kicks, then two immediately pulls and one kicks. This goes back and forth until the door goes down, then they can move to the side in an L for a quick pie to get out of the way while clearing, and enter as normal. A hasty slice as I do it, and show in the slides, is that half the room is cleared moving up to the door, and the other half is cleared as soon as one-man moves into the door frame, so once he passes he is shooting toward his corner at the diagonal. There is no lack of speed in this method. If fire is taken, then the contingencies showed in the slides are taken.

Transition between IE and LE

Where does it transition? Do we use the same IE techniques like buttonhook and hope or are there better ones (more targeted) now the LP has cleared most of the room?

I don't use buttonhooks. The closest I get is when I use my foot to turn off the door frame to run through the door at the diagonal or to roll out quickly from the door frame. Butonhooks are somewhat pointless in my clearing techniques.

Decision models to IE or LE

Still all OODA loop? What makes me go from LE to IE?

Honestly there isn't much of a difference in my techniques. A stealthy clear should still be as fast as safely possible, and given that I move in "pulses" as discussed in the slides, my techniques are largely the same. The closest possible difference may be a long clear to the opposite side of the door, but I don't use that particular technique, and so really I don't see the difference. Rather, a more accurate concern would be the mission ROE/context. Suppressive fire is largely a military use, although in my methods of firing through the wall, you will notice that I follow the angle that the fire came from, it is not random shooting, and this minimizes any issues of collateral. The fact of the matter is that pistol bullets go through the entire house easily, so this is always an issue. I'm more worried in taking out an actively shooting, dedicated threat, and until that kind of threat is faced, you will notice that I don't use suppressive fire. OODA doesn't really factor in. I am always reacting with the same concepts trained as battle drills, and the criteria I use such as one man going long, etc are designed to put myself ahead of the curve every time.

Man down during LE (far vs near side)

Man down on the opposite side, i.e. man crossed door and now cut off during fire through doorway. What SOPs?

I don't move to the opposite side of the door unless in an L so that extraction is quick and efficient. And even then I don't move much past center, as shown in the slides.

Small doorways where you have to bypass #1 man to either cross or enter room

What happens in really small doorways like those in Afghan?

I don't clear like High Threat or Israelis do per se. I do it more as a high man low man, where low man books it diagonally and high man snaps the opposite corner (assuming a centerfed) before they both switch to secondary sectors. This makes the small doorway a non-issue.

Shooting through wall

What happens with this? Israeli argument to wall-thickness.

As you will see from the slides, This is a boon for me, not him. He doesn't know where I am, but my whole team knows where he is. Guys in the back of the stack can see where rounds hit the outside wall. Two bullets establish an angle. A casualty establishes a line of fire. Paying attention to these things let's you zero in and suppress, distract, etc with far more precision than the threat. At the end of the day, I have more room, more options, and a smaller pond to fish in. The scales are not balanced, and him being prepared isn't the same issue it would be if I moved in a traditionally dynamic fashion.

How does IE and LE relate to METTTC?

Depends on the department. If it's a military raid on a penetrable house, I can literally do shifting fires through the side of the wall and drop as the team moves to breach. I can suppress the entire top floor like that as well, and only stop when the team on the bottom floor moves to clear the top. The only real difference with LE is that I can't start with gun fire like this with extreme violence, and I have to consider the context. Hostage, collateral, etc. If this is some crazy dude alone with an AK, then suppressive fire isn't an issue. SWAT get detailed blueprints and intel, as well as access to flashbangs, etc, but even without this, there isn't a real difference. Triangulation is the best method for a hostage situation anyway because it gives you the best possible chance of a clean shot.

I hope this helps. My experiences have tempered my method, and I tend to focus on extremely aggressive, precise but unorthodox techniques that differ little across contexts aside from how loud you yell or the use of flashbangs vs hand signals, etc. Suppressive fire happens when there's something to suppress. Aside from that, it's fairly simple, and uses concepts that every grunt private learns, but consistently, in new ways, and takes into account things I've seen done that worked real time.

Nathan Wagar
Head Coach, Combatives | Fortitude Tactical Group, LLC

The slides he was discussing are here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2598.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Post Reply

Return to “CQB entry tactics / room clearing”