Stealth

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Ryan
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Stealth

Post by Ryan » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:35 am

What TTP's specifically change for stealth scenarios? Are there any new methods or entry and exit that are in place?

What do you do when you come across a sleeping enemy? Is H2H or using a knife more applicable in a stealth situation?

For example I've seen videos where weapons are kept lower than normal, low-ready instead of high to avoid bumping muzzles into objects.
For example you can actually HIDE from the person (hiding tactics) to watch/track them.
For example picklocking instead of an EMOE.

You can set up your own inner defense in the enemies front room and use their objects and barricades such as sofas against them.
You have to constantly assess what's around you and your rear incase someone is tracking you.
You have to be aware of environmental objects that may give away your position or signs that you have been there.

You can work out paths of movement or habits. For example, if someone goes to the toilet, well they are going to come back to the spot they were in before. Internal structure ambush. It's a lot about knowing when to move, staying off the beaten path and minimizing load.

What kind of surprise attacks may be used?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

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"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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jimothy_183
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Re: Stealth

Post by jimothy_183 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:06 am

I want to quickly go over mindset and the principles behind stealth mode first. Generally speaking it's all about being slow and deliberate and utilising various means to maximise safety for the operators.

Some previously mentioned examples of TTPs would be using mirrors and pieing on corners and rooms.
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tacticalguy
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Re: Stealth

Post by tacticalguy » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:40 pm

Out of all of the CQB operations that I've participated in, only about 8-10% were stealth or sneaky ops. Mostly, they were initially stealth operations to gain the best possible position from which to launch the surprise assault. One side effect of stealth operations is that if you have an enemy that is capable and alert, you could lose part of your team prior to the bangs going off. We started using IR reactive paint and putting numbers on the front and back of our guys so that there wouldn't be any mistakes. If you're a warm body coming towards me at night and you have a weapon, you better have a number on your left or right collar bone. We actually used yard marking paint, it's cheap and widely available at your local hardware store.
If you have `cleared' all the rooms and met no resistance, you and your entry team have probably kicked in the door of the wrong house.
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Re: Stealth

Post by Ryan » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:27 am

After reading No Easy Day it is coming more into the standard way to operate. You obviously want surprise and these guys were literally walking around with sleeping taliban 10 feet from them. Some very interesting concepts around stealth itself and being inside the building before the firefight kicks off, if you're compromised it becomes a deadly room-on-room battle. On the other hand if you are compromised outside then there is time for fortification, as with inside where you could burst into the target room with less distance of which to achieve that.

You need better muzzle awareness and body awareness so you don't bang anything and create a, at least distinctive, sound signature.
There are techniques to the way you walk and move you body.

Night raids, cutting off power, so on. Gotta wear those GPNVG's for something!


CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Stealth

Post by Ryan » Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:07 am

Image
Crossbow, really?!

Applicable for "stealth" operations? :lol:
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Re: Stealth

Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:33 am

They must have been playing COD. :lol:
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Re: Stealth

Post by Ryan » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:31 am

tacticalguy wrote:Out of all of the CQB operations that I've participated in, only about 8-10% were stealth or sneaky ops. Mostly, they were initially stealth operations to gain the best possible position from which to launch the surprise assault. One side effect of stealth operations is that if you have an enemy that is capable and alert, you could lose part of your team prior to the bangs going off. We started using IR reactive paint and putting numbers on the front and back of our guys so that there wouldn't be any mistakes. If you're a warm body coming towards me at night and you have a weapon, you better have a number on your left or right collar bone. We actually used yard marking paint, it's cheap and widely available at your local hardware store.
How do your entries change? Are you slower and more methodical or do you keep a good speed and just be very cautious? I find that the more time on target, even if you're being very silent, the more risk of compromise. It's about weighing up speed to sound. I mean you can be as slow as you like but as soon as you scrape a wall or bump an object with your foot - game over. Do you crouch or crouch walk? Do you short-stock or move the muzzle away from objects more often?

You say prior to the bangs going off, does that mean a target room you flood with noise and change from stealth to dynamic?

What I've always wanted to know is how it all works. Stealth on approach, access to the building then stealth inside the building.

What exactly is stealth?
What compromises your "stealthiness" - is it speed, is it noise, is it gut instinct?
Where does the transition point happen from stealth to dynamic? Can a dynamic entry such as a buttonhook be used in a stealth situation?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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Ryan
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Re: Stealth

Post by Ryan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:34 am

jimothy_183 wrote:They must have been playing COD. :lol:
Image

Green Berets before COD. Must of been watching too many movies. :lol: But truth is crossbows were used in places like Korea, Vietnam even. They had HE tips too!

Ref: http://www.hwarangdo.com/Magazines/BBJan77-echanis.htm ...
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

TLS
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Re: Stealth

Post by TLS » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:19 pm

Situation dependant.
Stealth approach to your entry point for a DA
Stealth or covert clearence of a large stronghold to shrink the stronghold
Stealth for a search and clear when the negs havn't heard from the suspect for a while ( slow deliberate clearance )
etc, the list goes on.
When it goes noisy is again situation dependant.
It might be on orders ( DA )
Contact with offender or civillians.
It might even be down to the first man in the stack not being able to clear a room from the outside/pieing or even just having a bad feeling about a particular room ( search and clear )
Like i said, situation dependant on what you are trying to achieve.

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Re: Stealth

Post by Ryan » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:51 am

I agree it's a flexible definition depending on what you're trying to achieve. For example some people may say leaving dead bodies behind is not 'stealth', yet others may say stealth is the fact you weren't caught or you were caught but didn't alert others in the area. Also, crossbows are effective in a way, it just needs strict definition - some people say 'that looks stupid', even say when seeing a carbine weapon with a high optic sight, 'that looks stupid' well, not for perimeter defense it doesn't.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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