Door Ambush

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Ryan
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Door Ambush

Post by Ryan » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:24 am

What do you guys think of this? How to counter? (If it was used against a friendly team). And if it was conducted by someone armed (projectile-based weapons), how to counter? Just a quick read, I thought it was interesting because it is along the lines that the bad guys would be thinking about.

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images ... ambush.pdf

E.g. would you put rounds through the actual door, or wall? Chuck a grenade in? Go through the wall or windows? Use of snipers? Rappel and engage?
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

Dramatikk

Re: Door Ambush

Post by Dramatikk » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:02 pm

A very interesting read indeed, Ryan. Lots of good points, and regarding it effectivenes, I would say that it works pretty well. (I got out of a bad situation with a knife attacker by grabbing the knife with both of my hands and smashing his hands with all my force into a concret wall, and then I ran off fast as f*ck.)

I guess popping rounds into the room and through the wall can be rather careless, if you don't got a complete picture of the room you're shooting into ... :roll:

But if you don't got any better alternative actions to choose from, then shooting through the wall will be the "right move" to make.

Kind regards, Dramatikk. :)

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jimothy_183
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Re: Door Ambush

Post by jimothy_183 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:53 am

The Bunker wrote: We have all heard the story, Cop gets into a gunfight at arms reach and misses his opponent. Not too long ago 3 members of a multiagency SWAT team emptied a 15 shot pistol, a 5 shot shotgun and a 30 round MP-5 magazine into a small room occupied by one suspect bystander (who emptied a 15 shot pistol also) and NO ONE WAS HIT!
Source



A solution answer to Ryan's question.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

Jack
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Re: Door Ambush

Post by Jack » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:37 pm

This is a good topic. I have been teaching weapons takeaways for a long time. I have never thought to train it in a door ambush scenario. However this makes perfect sense. I think I will work this into my training.

As far as defense goes, I always go to an underarm assault position when going through a doorway. Good luck shoving a gun in my face or ripping it from my grasp when I have a long gun tucked nicely under my arm. Once through the doorway bring it back into a low ready position. Of course there are other techniques I use if the gun is grabbed, but this is the basics.

Dramatikk

Re: Door Ambush

Post by Dramatikk » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:56 pm

jimothy_183 wrote:
The Bunker wrote: We have all heard the story, Cop gets into a gunfight at arms reach and misses his opponent. Not too long ago 3 members of a multiagency SWAT team emptied a 15 shot pistol, a 5 shot shotgun and a 30 round MP-5 magazine into a small room occupied by one suspect bystander (who emptied a 15 shot pistol also) and NO ONE WAS HIT!
Found a video example on this matter:



Kind regards, Dramatikk. :)

OT - EDIT:

I don't really buy the part that small arms ammo will not penetrate car windows at short distance ... Even 22lr can punsh through car windows at short range of 5 meters ... :?

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Ryan
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Re: Door Ambush

Post by Ryan » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:09 am

5.56 will penetrate normal windshields, even pistol loads do.

At that range, no problem.

But it may not be normal glass, it may be reinforced and a different grade, costs a fair bit of cash but a dealer could afford.

Testing revealed they tend to come inwards and downwards at a 3 degree decline into the vehicle, that was the average and most probable but then you can push different angles, loads and types of glass in the middle and it all changes.

I don't think you really expect to hit people you cannot see or where you believe them to be, i.e. you see them one minute go behind X wall, engage X wall at the point you think he is and around that area, chest and then prone heights. You may not hit the person at all, but it'll be intimidating to say the least.
CQB-TEAM Education and Motivation.

"Pragmatism over theory."
"Anyone with a weapon is just as deadly as the next person."
"Unopposed CQB is always a success, if you wanted you could moonwalk into the room holding a Pepsi."

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