Blackwater

Forum to discuss all related topics on private contractors.

Moderators: jimothy_183, Admin

birddog
Military
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 am
Location: Washington

Blackwater

Post by birddog » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:24 am

Besides myself, has anyone hear worked or trained with any Blackwater personel ?
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:26 am

I had the ability to go to CQD training at the Black Water facility, but my Sergeant's and Captains dropped the ball and I missed my window. I do have a friend who works for Black Water. I guess the answer is no.

birddog
Military
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 am
Location: Washington

Post by birddog » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:45 am

thats close enough ! Especialy having a friend who works for them. I worked with a few of thier pilots in Bahgdad, They are very profesional in my book.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:12 am

My friend who works for them is a former Point Man.
Last edited by Jack on Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:21 am

I've always wanted to know why there is controversy (especially in the media) surrounding private firms like Blackwater.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

Harry Miste
Civilian
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Shadow Moses

Post by Harry Miste » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:07 am

jimothy_183 wrote:I've always wanted to know why there is controversy (especially in the media) surrounding private firms like Blackwater.
Maybe because anybody can hire them.
Anybody.
I'm not actually part of a team that requires to do this sort of thing in real life. But I know the tactics anyway.

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:49 am

Oh yeah I heard about that and I believe it can create some problems.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

Jack
Law Enforcment
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:27 pm

Post by Jack » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:39 pm

I'm not against contractors. I have a good friend who has done work in Iraq and Jordan. I even thought about it myself.

However I think most people are upset about the fact that they don't fall within the military chain of command. They don't have to maintain the physical discipline, training, and a lot of things like that. Also if the going gets too tough, the contractor can simply quit and walk away, possibly leaving the soldiers without critical supplies that the contractors where bringing them. This is just a few examples.

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:04 pm

I also heard that they don't need to follow the ROE that the normal military has, is that true?
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
Military
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 am
Location: Washington

Blackwater in trouble again

Post by birddog » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:46 pm

Federal prosecutors have sent target letters to six Blackwater Worldwide security guards involved in a September shooting that left 17 Iraqi civilians dead, indicating a high likelihood the Justice Department will seek to indict at least some of the men, according to three sources close to the case.

The guards, all former U.S. military personnel, were working as security contractors for the State Department, assigned to protect U.S. diplomats and other non-military officials in Iraq. The shooting occurred when their convoy arrived at a busy square in central Baghdad and guards tried to stop traffic.

An Iraqi government investigation concluded that the security contractors fired without provocation. Blackwater has said its personnel acted in self-defense.

The sources said that any charges against the guards would likely be brought under the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act, which has previously been used to prosecute only the cases referred to the Justice Department by the Defense Department for crimes committed by military personnel and contractors overseas. Legal experts have questioned whether contractors working for the State Department can be prosecuted under its provisions.

The sources cautioned that prosecutors are still weighing evidence gathered in a 10-month investigation that began shortly after the shootings. A federal grand jury has heard testimony from about three dozen witnesses since November, including U.S. and Blackwater officials and Iraqis, according to two of the sources.

Target letters, often considered a prelude to indictment, offer suspects the opportunity to contest evidence brought before the grand jury and give their own version of events. The letters were sent this summer, although the sources, who agreed to discuss the case only on the condition of anonymity because of its sensitivity, said a final decision on whether to indict may not be made until October, about a year after the incident.

The U.S. attorney's office in Washington and the Justice Department's National Security Division are leading the investigation. Channing Phillips, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office, declined to comment, as did Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd. A spokeswoman for the FBI's Washington field office, which investigated the shooting on the ground in Iraq in the weeks after the incident, also declined to comment.

Anne E. Tyrell, a spokeswoman for North Carolina-based Blackwater, said that the company believes the guards fired their weapons "in response to a hostile threat" and is monitoring the investigation closely.

"If it is determined that an individual acted improperly, Blackwater would support holding that person accountable," Tyrell said in a statement. "But at this stage, without being able to review evidence collected in an ongoing investigation, we will not prejudge the actions of any individual. The company is cooperating fully with ongoing investigations and believes that accountability is important."

Earlier reports on the investigation indicated that the FBI had focused on three Blackwater guards among a larger but unknown number present at the time of the Sept. 16 incident in Baghdad's Nisoor Square. None has been publicly identified, and authorities did not say which six received the target letters.

The shooting, and the perceived failure to hold anyone accountable for it, has fueled congressional dissatisfaction with the government's use of private security contractors in a combat zone. Contractors working for the Defense Department are now explicitly liable for crimes under laws covering the military, but several efforts in Congress to extend that jurisdiction to State Department contractors have failed.

The incident also angered Iraqi political leaders. U.S. contractors have been exempt from Iraqi law under a decree imposed by the U.S. occupation administration in 2003.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:41 pm

Yeah I think I read that story once before, where did you get it from?
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
Military
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 am
Location: Washington

Post by birddog » Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:24 am

I have my sources ! Being in an Intell position, I have to keep up with certain "things"....this "incedent" is old as far as when it happened, but the case is still ongoing.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:50 am

I don't know what to think of private firms. Some say they're good and some say they're bad. Of course that's just about private firms in general and not talking about any one firm specifically.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
Military
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:27 am
Location: Washington

Post by birddog » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:05 am

My take on PMC's is that they are usefull in CERTAIN situations AND, I repeat, AND need to be monitered carefully. Any contractor who has Cart Blanch in any country is asking for trouble. Rules are made to protect all involved.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:29 am

Ok, after seeing this I'm leaning slightly more towards the "PMCs are bad" side.

http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/woman/ ... iers/#more

But then again this might be another one of those biased stories, but still.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

User avatar
jimothy_183
Military
Posts: 1030
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:55 am
Location: Australia

Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:36 am

Of coarse when I say biased, I mean the story is from the pacifist's point of view. And when I say pacifist, I mean those who are against the war.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

serpiente23
Civilian
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:16 am
Location: tampa, fla

Post by serpiente23 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:42 am

i wouldnt be a contractor, not nowadays anyway. too much controversy and ive heard too many stories, especially with blackwater, eodt, and knr *used to work for haliburton*.

RaidonTactics
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 2:43 pm
Location: USA

Post by RaidonTactics » Tue May 19, 2009 7:49 pm

I do work with a instructor that is on board with our company and blackwater is top dog but to bad there is always one or two bad apples that will destroy the reputation. Please stop by our website and contact our instructor who has been there and done it with questions.
Grant Reyes
Raidon Tactics
Law Enforcement Director
http://www.raidontactics.com
"Training Professional Warriors"

User avatar
Nightwolf
Contractor
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:05 pm
Location: Hungary, Iraq, A'stan, Bosnia, UAE, UK
Contact:

Post by Nightwolf » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:59 pm

jimothy_183 wrote:I also heard that they don't need to follow the ROE that the normal military has, is that true?
Its not true. We have to follow the ROE too.
Drink coffee!-Do crazy things faster!

Bulldawg

Post by Bulldawg » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:25 pm

I have not had the opportunity to "work" with them but two of the schools I had to go to for training were taught by them and I did have some instructors that taught at the 3rd tactical school I went to, all in all, I thought they were very professional, and knowledgeable in the instruction I got.. SUPERB training facilities as well.

Post Reply

Return to “Contractors”