leadership

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birddog
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leadership

Post by birddog » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:09 am

other factors in leadership qualities:
a good leader must be ready to acept defeat.
a good leader must listen to his/her subordinates
a good leader must earn the respect of his/her command
a good leader must be prepared to lead without hesitation
a good leader must fail once in his/her life
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

Jack
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Post by Jack » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:26 am

In my experience I see two types of leaders. One is the boss, who is good at administrative tasks, such as; scheduling the range, issuing equipment, and telling other people what to do, but not doing it himself, or is not capable of doing it himself. Then there are the leaders who you know would do it themselves and have repeatedly. These are the guys who lead by example when it comes time to make war. Moral, disciplined leaders, who you want to emulate. Unfortunately I have seen more of the former.

birddog
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Post by birddog » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:36 am

Yea, I have to agree with you Jake......They have the "schooling" but no practical experiance to lead.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

Jack
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Post by Jack » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:58 pm

I think it goes back to the adage that their are leaders who are;

1. capable and willing

2. capable and unwilling

3. unwilling and uncapable

4. willing but uncapable

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:04 am

I don't want to sound like I'm getting a big head here but I think I fall into the number 1 category. :wink:

I think because I haven't had the opportunity to prove myself yet.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
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Post by birddog » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:21 am

I have to admit, I have been a subordinate and I have lead. The responsibility of leadership is increadible. I could spend all day explaining this on the forum, but I would get carple tunnel syndrom.
jimothy, you can be trained to lead but could you lead those to men to thier deaths and live with the mistakes you made ?
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:28 am

birddog wrote: jimothy, you can be trained to lead but could you lead those to men to thier deaths and live with the mistakes you made ?
Well I could lead my team mates to their virtual doom (real people, virtual operators) and still live with it but I'd have to live with being the dunce and the laughing stock of the team for a while.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
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Post by birddog » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:32 am

I wrote this in an earlier post
***********************************************************
a good leader must be ready to acept defeat.
a good leader must listen to his/her subordinates
a good leader must earn the respect of his/her command
a good leader must be prepared to lead without hesitation
a good leader must fail once in his/her life
***********************************************************
General Patton led men to their Deaths, so did Col. Hal Moore. Being a leader doesnt mean your perfect, it means your human and you have developed the respect of your command.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:45 am

A good leader must be ready to accept defeat.
A good leader must listen to his/her subordinates
A good leader must earn the respect of his/her command
A good leader must be prepared to lead without hesitation
A good leader must fail once in his/her life
Ok here goes,

I'm ready to accept defeat even if it results being a dunce and the laughing stock of the team.

I'm ready to listen to my "subordinates" although I will still disagree if what they say sounds outrageous.

I'm ready to do what it takes to earn the respect of my command (although I'm not sure on the best way to do this).

I'm ready to lead without hesitation even when the mission at hand looks daunting.

I have already failed at least once in my life.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
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Post by birddog » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:58 am

jimothy_183 wrote:
A good leader must be ready to accept defeat.
A good leader must listen to his/her subordinates
A good leader must earn the respect of his/her command
A good leader must be prepared to lead without hesitation
A good leader must fail once in his/her life
Ok here goes,

I'm ready to accept defeat even if it results being a dunce and the laughing stock of the team.

I'm ready to listen to my "subordinates" although I will still disagree if what they say sounds outrageous.

I'm ready to do what it takes to earn the respect of my command (although I'm not sure on the best way to do this).

I'm ready to lead without hesitation even when the mission at hand looks daunting.

I have already failed at least once in my life.
LOL, ok first off, no one is going to call you a dunce or laugh at you, you are a leader and leaders WILL make mistakes, its part of the learning prosses.
now for the rest of your answers, there is good ideas, bad ideas and WTF were they thinking ideas....all must be explored because there could be something that each idea has that can be molded into a really good plan.
Earning respect is easy, RESPECT your men and they will respect you. Do the best you can, stand up for your team and never hang them out to dry.
Leading without hesitation can be tricky...IF YOU KNOW its a no win situation, you wont lead blindly into the meat grinder....you should ask your team thier oppinion(s) and work out an alternate plan.
And I hate to pry, but was was your main "defeat" in your life ?
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:07 am

birddog wrote:And I hate to pry, but was was your main "defeat" in your life ?
Hmm, I might have said I've failed too quickly because now that I think of it, maybe it has to be a really big defeat, right? Not just little ones.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
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Post by birddog » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:13 am

Yea, everyone has had small defeats in their lives. I am talking about a defeat that has a huge impact on your life or the lives of others.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:15 am

I'll have to think about that one but I doubt I might find one seeing how if I can't think of one immediately I probably don't have one (yet) because a big defeat would probably be a very memorable moment.
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
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Post by birddog » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:42 am

Well said ! and your right....you would remember it , never forget it and you would learn from it. I had a defeat that cost 2 men thier lives in Iraq. The Official outcome was KIA by small arms fire while engaged in a firefight, But un-officialy, I sent my scout/snipers into a building that I had no intell on and had no idea what was inside, I wanted them ontop of the building to provide cover for the rest of my team to recon another building in Balad. The building I sent them into was ocupied by 4 armed Suni's and all hell broke loose when my guys entered. The Suni's and my two Shooters pretty much killed each other before the rest of my team could reach the building. I had to take responsibility for making the wrong desision and I pay for it every day, but I also learned from it and my troopers respect me more because of it.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:05 am

4 on 2, your shooters must have put up one hell of a fight.
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birddog
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Post by birddog » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:16 am

Cav Scout RSTA snipers are very well trained, but unfortunatly...they still met the REAPER due to my bad call.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

Jack
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Post by Jack » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:31 am

Remember the three rules of gunfighting/soldering.

1. Somebody has to walk point.

2. People who walk point die.

3. You can't change rule #1 and #2.

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:12 pm

How would you differentiate between someone who is best suited as an NCO and someone who's best suited as a CO?
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

birddog
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Post by birddog » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:36 am

normaly, they allready know what path they want, but I also know some good junior NCO's who went to the WOC program to become pilots and I know one E4 who is going to OCS (fast track). Its a calling really, and these few individuals are fine examples of leadership within the ranks of the NCO's. They just want to expand there current horrizon and do what comes naturally for them.
They say that hard work never killed anyone, but why take that chance ?

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jimothy_183
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Post by jimothy_183 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:06 am

I see now. So is it common for people to spend some time in the enlisted ranks before before they start learning to be an officer?
semper acer , semper velox , semper trux , semper promptus

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