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tactical diagramming

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:53 am
by Jack
What do you see in the picture?


Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:37 am
by jcheng14
got a picture of the back?
not liking an approach from the front too much. Too many windows.

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:40 am
by Jack
What else?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:46 am
by Jack
Think about the title, tactical diagramming. And then even look beyond that. What do you see that might be relevant, help full, and important?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:26 am
by jimothy_183
Would one of the things that might be relevant be the fact that this house is not your conventional two story house? It looks to me like there's acually three floors but they kinda over lap a little bit.

The bottom left window looks like it might be a potential entry point...

If it wasen't for the car in the driveway I would use a ladder to make the window above the driveway as another entry point, although it is a little bit small. On another note, if there was a stand off with a barricaded suspect I'm sure it would warrant the towing of that car away for the entry team.

The top left window also looks like a good entry point if a ladder is used, the windows nice and big and its not too high up either. I don't know if you can make entry with both the bottom and the top window at the same time because it might get over crowded at the bottom when people are getting ready to enter.

Lastly I think the trees in the background means that a sniper covering the back of the building won't be as effective.

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:52 pm
by Jack
Yea. Keep thinking. Although I see the trees in the backyard as a good thing. It is actually a split entry. When you open the door you have a landing and then stairs that go up and down.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:28 am
by jimothy_183
Ah, so it's really actually just two floors?

Any hints on whats on your mind by the way? :wink:

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:41 am
by jimothy_183
As jcheng14 has pointed out, there are too many windows where a person standing in the front yard can get shot from. This would probably promt the man in charge to mark the front yard as a killzone/no mans land. The trees in the backyard will make good cover while the entry team move to take positions in the back and then maybe enter the back yard to prepare for entry into the house. I see an area in the right hand side of the photo where a car to drive through to the back of the house, this would make me suspect there might be an area for the car to drive into and possibly lead into a garage at the back of the house. I think a big garage door would make a good entry point if the garage is connected to another room in the house.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:32 am
by Jack
What kind of people live at the house?

Who can tell me what the inside of the house looks like?

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:09 am
by jcheng14
It were me I'd approach from the side, houses with aluminum siding generally don't have very many windows (if any at all) on the side. Bring a ladder, get onto the roof, come in through the windows. Top left one in particular looks good.

I'd make a guess that its a split level house, what with the way the windows on the bottom appear to be lower then the door, and the windows on the top don't seem to be high enough for a second floor.

Then again, it could be a basement that those bottom windows are coming from. The little thing jutting out from the right side makes me think its a window cover, like to keep water from pooling at the window sill.

I think I'd probably go with floodlights aimed at the windows, have one team force that side window and come in from the basement / bottom level same time as a few go through that top left window from the roof.

Top to bottom and bottom to top at the same time. Also from opposite sides of the house. Catches the subject in the middle, but there may also be a chance of friendly fire. It would depend on the layout of the building inside.

I'm gonna assume there are atleast 2 kids there, probably not yet in the teens. I'm going to guess that one is a boy (~12?) and one is a girl(~10?), This comes from the basketball hoop being too high for a small child, but it doesnt look full height which means to me middle or elementry school. (or yea, maybe just some highschool kid who wants to dunk). Guessing a girl from that pink butterflyish thing.

Antenna on the roof indicates somebody there likes the TV, on the very far right, in the that a dog? If it is, might be hard to make an entry without whoever inside being alerted. Could always tranq the dog if they leave it outside though.

Chimney on the left means that theres a family or sitting room in the basement or upper floor on that side of the house. Thinking the foyer area has a high ceiling, basically the same as the roof, or probably one of the highest points in the house, if not equal to. The circular window over the door likely wouldnt be for an attic. Guessing the top right window is a bedroom or a bathroom, from those curly things that you can see. It doesnt make me think kitchen or dining room.

Near the middle basement window, just to the right of it. That white patch makes me curious. I cant really zoom in on it, but i'm thinking it might be a vent of some sort (for a dryer or a kitchen vent maybe) or perhaps a phone / or electrical junction or meter. Either way it's odd because meters for electricity / gas, or phone switches, and vents usually are not located at the front of the house. It MIGHT possibly be a secondary kitchenette thing? I really have no clue.

I THINK judging from the webaddress that the house is located in the New England area (or north east?)

Another thought that occurred to me, if they have a boy and a girl, there are likely 3 bedrooms because generally a brother and a sister wouldnt share rooms.

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:22 am
by jimothy_183
Nice analytical skills jcheng14! *thumbs up*

About the top left window I think the top left one looks the best too, nice and big, unlike the other ones that are too cramped for one person to enter through with ease now that I think of it. On that top left window it might be too cramped for two people to move in at the same time though but if it is possible it would be nice for two people to make entry at the same time.
This contains some information on the conventional layout of the split level house. But I think the "middle" floor where the front door leads of to is small as Jake has said before, the door just leads to a landing that splits off. I think the house might be too small to have the "middle" floor to be much bigger than a small landing.

I think the simultaneous entries will be good for cornering the subject rather than having the team enter only through one entry point as there would most likely be two distinct areas separated by the floors (not counting the "middle" floor area) but you never know, the layout of the house may really be unconventional and cause an unpredictable outcome.

With the stuff about the kids living in the house, as I said before, nice analytical skills. I never looked at it picture that way before and noticed the stuff lying around the house, or even the inside by looking through the window, rather than only what's on the outside of the house.

That thing on the far right kinda does look like a dog but I don't think that's a dog. It looks more like an inanimate object of some sort to me. Maybe it's one of those gas cylinders on it's side so the topside is facing the camera?

About the family/sitting room I think because of the window size of the top left window the upper floor is most likely where the family/sitting room is. I don't think you would have one of those rooms downstairs with a crappy view of the outside but one of my points below this one may challenge and contradict this statement.

Also I think the top right window is definitely a bedroom window, those curly things sure look like a bed head or part of the bed frame to me.

That weird thing next to the bottom middle window may just be a power point that is used to plug in something such as a vacuum cleaner for cleaning the car? The position of the power point would be very convenient for that purpose.

With the website, I took a look at it, I was a bit lost as I didn't really know how to navigate through it, maybe its just me but I think the site is set up weird. But I did see a map some where on the site of the area that this real estate agency (it's a real estate agency right?) operates in.

As I said before in an above point that this may contradict what I said about the family/sitting room being on the upper floor but if there really are three bedrooms then maybe the master bedroom is on the top left judging by the window size.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:49 am
by Jack
We can see that the screen door hinges are on the right. Which way dose the interior/main front door open?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:49 am
by Jack
By the way, that's a dryer vent.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:51 am
by Jack
Are the people in the house generally lazy or hard working?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:08 am
by jimothy_183
Jake wrote:We can see that the screen door hinges are on the right. Which way dose the interior/main front door open?
Hang on a second, screen door? well if your talking about the front door with a second screen door inside then the front door will be a pull door while the screen door will be a push door.Because the hinges of the screen door being on the right hand side then it would open with the door swinging inwards and to the right or in other words, clockwise.

If your calling the front door with the small window panels the screen door then it would open inwards as most front doors would and then to the right or clockwise.

Sorry about the way I'm describing the way the doors open but I'm not sure what the best way to describe the way the door opens is.
Jake wrote:By the way, that's a dryer vent.
lol, ok then. By the way, do you own this house or something? Like I mean how can you know something like that? :lol:
Jake wrote:Are the people in the house generally lazy or hard working?
I'd say lazy because they leave their stuff lying around outside and no one seems to be cleaning it up. But the fact that thay have an alright house and car may say otherwise, maybe the parents are out working hard to make ends meet and can't be around to clean up after the kids.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:33 am
by Jack
You are right about the door. When the door opens to to the right, it hits the wall on the right side. Directly in front of you is the stairs that go up, to the left is the stairs that go down.

If you walked up and looked into the windows on the lower right side, you would see the inside of the garage. And to the left of the windows is the washer and dryer, or maybe they are located between the two windows.

Up stairs window on the far right is most likely the master bedroom. These rooms are often located on the corner of the house so that they can take advantage of the opportunity to have a window on two different sides of the house. This is further evident, by the large frame bed seen through the window.

The fire place is upstairs in the living room. I'm sure under the living room on the lower left side is a family room area below, I suspect without a fireplace.

No I have never seen the house before. I selected it at random from a real estate sight. The reason I think it is a dryer vent is because it is on the lower front portion of the house, it is the right size, and there are no wires connecting it to anything.

I like the thought of approaching the front door for entry from the right. Use the tall concrete basement wall for cover on your approach, and duck under the windows(although I doubt anyone is in the garage). If shooting starts before entry is made, retreat back to the concrete for cover. If he wants to shoot you, at that point, he would have to lean out of the house and be exposed to sniper fire. I don't think that any of the windows make good entry points.

They may appear lazy, but look at the well kept flowers. I'm guessing that dad comes home from working and watches TV. The kids play, to too many kids, because the car is only so big(assuming that is the only vehicle they own) and mom doesn't work, because she has time for the flowers.

P.S. Don't forget about the outside light which is located to the left of the door.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:46 am
by Jack
I was trying to say, "NOT too many kids."

By the way the kitchen is on the left side of the house, in the back. There may or may not be a wall separating the kitchen form the living room, but I'm sure there is no door separating them. There is also a deck on the back that you get to from a screen door in the kitchen.

Where the kitchen and the living room meet is a hallway that is in the middle of the right side of the living room. I'm guessing that the public bathroom is the first door on the left as you go down the hall. That would keep you from walking a long way from the living room to take a dump and the pluming would be on the same side of the house and next to the kitchen. Then a closet on the left and then one of the kids rooms. On the right I'm guessing a bedroom it the first room, then the master bath with no door access, then the master bedroom. When you walk into the bedroom, the closet is on the left and the master bath door is on the right.

P.S. The master bathroom location I'm not sure about. I'm still thinking that one through.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:49 am
by Jack
Something I just noticed. The watering pot is blocking the door form opening. Could this mean that they don't use the front door and that it might be barricaded? I doubt it, but I would like to see it gone the next time I dove by, to make sure it is not a fixture.

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:08 am
by jimothy_183
So now seeing how we got a general picture of the possible layout of the house would you like us to draw our own floor plan of the house or something like that?

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:13 am
by jimothy_183
By the way do you think you are born with analytical skills or is it obtained through experience and knowing "stuff"?